Southern York County Life

markG - 27 June 2008 08:24 AM

pooch - 27 June 2008 06:51 AM

markG - 26 June 2008 09:17 PM

The piano was dropped from the agenda tonight.  This was the first meeting that I have attended in a while and I am more convinced now than ever that they need to hire professionals to run the district and the associated $43 million dollar budget.  I am sure that everyone on the board is well intentioned, but there is not enough experience there to be stewards of this kind of money.  We need people that are held accountable to both the schools and the public.

Hey Mark- Not enough experience on the school board to allocate such monies and not near enough experienced teachers left to give the quality of education those tax dollars should be demanding!

Perhaps the statement about losing experienced teachers is true, but how do you measure the effectiveness of an educator?  It appears that the only way that it is done now is by tenure and that is far from the best litmus test in my opinion.

It appears that State test scores went up this year in the school district in spite of the perceived drain of teacher talent.  Just as I believe that the Administration and Board need to be accountable for their actions and fiscal responsibility, I believe just as strongly that the next teacher contract should include measurable standards to rate the overall effectiveness of teachers.  Tenure alone should not be the measure of an educator’s effectiveness in the classroom.

I apologize to the forum for this brief thread.  We now return to our regularly scheduled programming........................................beeeeeeeeeeeeeep

I agree 100%, Mark!

so humor me…

if you want more to measure how well a teacher can teach, what do you propose? you cannot make a statement like that without having some sort of suggestion.

dumdumlollies - 27 June 2008 12:05 PM

so humor me…

if you want more to measure how well a teacher can teach, what do you propose? you cannot make a statement like that without having some sort of suggestion.

I will not even entertain the partronizing tone of your post with a response.  I can only assume that you believe that tenure is the way to go, so I will leave you to your opinion.

so humor me…

if you want more to measure how well a teacher can teach, what do you propose? you cannot make a statement like that without having some sort of suggestion.

If the teachers would give up tenure, I would be willing to pay them more.  I dont understand how the concept of tenure actually extends into high school anyway.

Tenure alone shouldn’t be the sole measure of effectiveness in any job.

Chris_McGraw - 27 June 2008 03:04 PM

Tenure alone shouldn’t be the sole measure of effectiveness in any job.

Here is a quick read link from the CATO Institute about the subject.  There is one line that is exactly the way that I feel about the subject, “Surely if schools can be trusted to educate children, a much more complex task, finding ways to grade teachers should be achievable.”

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4287

dumdumlollies - 27 June 2008 12:05 PM

so humor me…

if you want more to measure how well a teacher can teach, what do you propose? you cannot make a statement like that without having some sort of suggestion.

In previous threads, I have voiced my opinion that teachers should be evaluated on their job performance and paid accordingly, not based on years of service and education.  Denver, CO schools are doing just that.

Here’s a previous thread on this topic: http://www.syclife.com/forums/viewthread/1499/

To see how Denver teachers are evaluated, see: http://denverprocomp.org/stories/storyReader$33

I have the utmost respect for the teachers of South Eastern.  I appreciate all they do for the children.

I hope that utmost respect converts to some tangible support for us teachers as this new contract desperately needs to be agreed upon.  The teachers of SESD are not being compensated at an amount that is consistent with the rest of York County.  I know that the tax coalition will try to have my head on this point, but I will still make it anyway!  At a time when SESD is looking to hold onto their teachers, to regain that once stable environment we all enjoyed...I think that everyone involved must realize that it is very simple for most teachers to leave SESD and acquire a position within another York Co. school district that includes at least a 10K raise +.  Coupled with the price of gas, with many making long commutes to this lower end of the county....this will NOT be a contract that needs to skimp on a fair (mind you...not an earthshattering increase) but just a fair contract that will put teachers in SESD on par with other area school district’s salary tables.

pooch - 29 June 2008 03:35 PM

I hope that utmost respect converts to some tangible support for us teachers as this new contract desperately needs to be agreed upon.  The teachers of SESD are not being compensated at an amount that is consistent with the rest of York County.  I know that the tax coalition will try to have my head on this point, but I will still make it anyway!  At a time when SESD is looking to hold onto their teachers, to regain that once stable environment we all enjoyed...I think that everyone involved must realize that it is very simple for most teachers to leave SESD and acquire a position within another York Co. school district that includes at least a 10K raise +.  Coupled with the price of gas, with many making long commutes to this lower end of the county....this will NOT be a contract that needs to skimp on a fair (mind you...not an earthshattering increase) but just a fair contract that will put teachers in SESD on par with other area school district’s salary tables.

I respect teachers.  My best friend is a teacher of 14 years.  I also believe that the new contract is not a one-way street.  There needs to be a happy medium in the negotiation process.  I would venture to say that most of the employers of citizens in the district have raised health care costs while not increasing salaries to match.  These are tough economic times and most employees expect not to see hugh increases, but that can not be said by most teacher’s unions.  How many teachers have gone on strike or threatened to strike over the past 2 years? 

I did some research on average salaries in York County and our crack State Department of Education only has statistics through the 2005-2006 year.  According to these stats only 2 districts in York County are have a >$10k salary difference, Dallastown and York Suburban.  I have no problem with a reasonable increase in salary if you would like to concede some health benefit costs, but if the union is looking for $10k then I will help make your picket signs.

APPENDIX E
CLASSROOM TEACHER AVERAGES AND RANKINGS BY LOCAL EDUCATION AGENCY
YORK COUNTY
Columns are District, Avg. Salary, State Rank of 724, Avg. Tenure, State Rank of 724, Education Avg., State Rank of 724

Crispus Attucks Youthbuild CS $37,233 677 13.8 421 4.2 554
Dallastown Area SD $63,942 41 14.4 353 4.3 414
Dover Area SD 1/ $47,129 465 15.1 275 4.6 50
Eastern York SD $49,028 386 13.7 434 4.5 111
Hanover Public SD $49,850 342 14.4 353 4.5 111
Lincoln CS $40,087 638 6.7 648 4.0 652
Northeastern York SD $51,022 290 13.9 407 4.4 240
Northern York County SD $46,843 481 17.0 125 4.3 414
Red Lion Area SD $53,860 178 13.4 461 4.5 111
South Eastern SD $50,336 318 12.7 521 4.2 554
South Western SD $50,964 292 13.7 434 4.4 240
Southern York County SD $56,927 102 16.7 145 4.4 240
Spring Grove Area SD $48,951 390 13.3 473 4.6 50
West Shore SD $50,782 303 13.6 444 4.3 414
West York Area SD $47,533 448 10.1 606 4.5 111
York City SD $57,272 95 14.3 369 4.7 18
York Co School of Technology $44,229 558 11.4 573 3.9 671
York County HS $32,889 706 9.7 613 4.2 554
York Suburban SD $63,679 45 15.5 235 4.6 50
COUNTY TOTAL $52,481
STATE TOTAL $54,043

pooch - 29 June 2008 03:35 PM

I hope that utmost respect converts to some tangible support for us teachers as this new contract desperately needs to be agreed upon.  The teachers of SESD are not being compensated at an amount that is consistent with the rest of York County.  I know that the tax coalition will try to have my head on this point, but I will still make it anyway!  At a time when SESD is looking to hold onto their teachers, to regain that once stable environment we all enjoyed...I think that everyone involved must realize that it is very simple for most teachers to leave SESD and acquire a position within another York Co. school district that includes at least a 10K raise +.  Coupled with the price of gas, with many making long commutes to this lower end of the county....this will NOT be a contract that needs to skimp on a fair (mind you...not an earthshattering increase) but just a fair contract that will put teachers in SESD on par with other area school district’s salary tables.

I agree that the teachers should get a fair raise BUT as I was told by my employer it would be an irresponsible business decision to give out raises until the economy improves. Also you will have to pay a greater amount of health care cost. I feel that this should be passed on to my school tax system when they make their budget decisions and not just be ignored. Hay people like it or not this is the real world!!!

Do we actually know how many SESD teachers are actually earning $50,336 ?

Inquiring minds want to know?

Sunriseinpa - 30 June 2008 07:40 PM

Do we actually know how many SESD teachers are actually earning $50,336 ?

Inquiring minds want to know?

All PA teacher salaries for 2006-07 are listed, by name, at http://php.app.com/PAteachers0607/search.php Put in York and South Eastern, and you’ll see them all. By the way, due to the contract, the salaries for 2007-08 are higher.  But the 06-07 list gives you a good idea of where our teachers fall.

Marge - 01 July 2008 11:22 AM

Sunriseinpa - 30 June 2008 07:40 PM

Do we actually know how many SESD teachers are actually earning $50,336 ?

Inquiring minds want to know?

All PA teacher salaries for 2006-07 are listed, by name, at http://php.app.com/PAteachers0607/search.php Put in York and South Eastern, and you’ll see them all. By the way, due to the contract, the salaries for 2007-08 are higher.  But the 06-07 list gives you a good idea of where our teachers fall.

Thank you! I will check out the site.

pooch - 29 June 2008 03:35 PM

I hope that utmost respect converts to some tangible support for us teachers as this new contract desperately needs to be agreed upon.  The teachers of SESD are not being compensated at an amount that is consistent with the rest of York County.  I know that the tax coalition will try to have my head on this point, but I will still make it anyway!  At a time when SESD is looking to hold onto their teachers, to regain that once stable environment we all enjoyed...I think that everyone involved must realize that it is very simple for most teachers to leave SESD and acquire a position within another York Co. school district that includes at least a 10K raise +.  Coupled with the price of gas, with many making long commutes to this lower end of the county....this will NOT be a contract that needs to skimp on a fair (mind you...not an earthshattering increase) but just a fair contract that will put teachers in SESD on par with other area school district’s salary tables.

Pooch, I am in no way associated with the tax coalition, but I too would like to have your head on this point!  Simply put, you don’t like the money you are making?  GO!