Southern York County Life

Ok.  I haven’t gone to the library to look it up yet, but I understand that there is a curfew in town, correct?
And it is also illegal to skateboard in town ? 
And the cool dances/gatherings/whatever you want to call it that they used to have at the “fairgrounds” don’t happen anymore?  Is all this correct?
Curfew, fine.  That is understandable.  Being a mother of 2 and former...troublemaker (in my teens of course) I know that if you are out after whatever the curfew is, you are up to no good.
The skateboard thing, didn’t a skate park open just north of Shrewsbury?  And I agree with whoever said it on another discussion, the parents could build one if their kids want one so bad (as in raise the money through fundrasing, get grants, start a club, call Tony Hawk, whatever, find a way if your kids love it).
As for the stuff at the “fairgrounds”, it is a shame that these kids have literally nothing to do now that these gatherings don’t happen.  I’m sure the usual drinking and drugs went on, perhaps more than any adult would know, but generally it seemed like a cool thing.  And I could hear the music from my house, and I really miss hearing live music (hey, I have 2 kids and no life). 
Why am I bringing all this up?  Because.  These kids have nothing to do.  They are bored.  Boredom leads to vandalism.  Boredom leads to drinking/drugs/you name it.  How do I know this?  I was 15 once (more years ago than I care to remember) and bored.  I did a lot of things I never should have done.  If you don’t believe me, ask a drug counselor or a police officer.  Am I right?
It always seemed so unfair.  We would find something fun to do (like having bands play in someones apartment) and it would get shut down.  It really stinks to be under the age of 16, then 18, and then 21.  I’m just putting it out there.  I have no solutions.  A friend of mine once started an “underage” club (you couldn’t come in if you were over a certain age, 16 on some nights, 18 on others, always 21 and under) and it got shut down, not because of what he did (and make any money was something that didn’t happen), because the kids just didn’t realise that the drugs and alcohol were not allowed. 
And it has to be something that they would actually go to, not something that is a complete dork fest.  Take a minute, think back to when you were in your late teens, say 16 or 17.  Rember the clothes, the cars, the music, the parties, the dances, the stuff that you really had fun doing.  Got that mental picture?  Remember how things were?  Now imagine what your kids go through.  Would you like to go through that again?  Would your kids have hung out with you?
Just a thought. Just my opinion.  Just an idea.  Just some friendly discussion. 

The Friday night events at the community building were a great idea, but without adult support in the way of supervision, it never seems to last.  Volunteers are needed, and hard to come by.

Skating has been a hot topic in the past, you can search the Old Forums and it’s everywhere, lot’s of nasty bickering too

Supposedly a park was being thought about for the landfill rec park, but I don’t even know the status of that whole idea right now, seems like it will never happen. 

There are tons of kids who skate in this town, it would be nice if they had somewhere they could practice the craft

Would also be nice if someone could post Ordiance #10, which I think is the skating ordinance.  Originally created becuase people were supposedly hit while walking on the sidewalk by skateboarders, I’m wondering if there is a similar ordinance for bicycyles and scooters, certainly they are an equal hazard to folks walking on the sidewalk?

Crawdaddy

Yes, The friday night rec was great until a few of the local trouble makers had to steal the payphone. this along with limited manpower to help supervise brought the friday night rec to an end.  However, the kids are not on the streets either on friday nights as in the past.

As for the skateboarding issue....about 75% of these kids need an attitude adjustment.  They have no respect and don’t think to ask permission before skating anywhere. The BIG reason it is so negative is the damage that is caused to the businesses where the kids are skating.  Wax in the curb is hard to get off and can be a safety issue along with other damage that skaters create. I think the other reason that skateboarding is a no-go around here is the liability issue and the fact that society is very sue happy.

And no.........no citations have been issued, however just about every parking lot has the proper signage and it is only a matter of time unitil the complaints pile up and the kids get delivered to mom and dad with a ticket in hand.  Hopefully that won’t have to happen an it shouldn’t if common sense is used. :idea: 

DC,

Thanks for the reply and additional information.  I would like to respond to several of your comments.

You state that about 75% of the kids who skate need an attitude adjustment.  Something to keep in mind is that most municipalities, small or large, deter kids from skateboarding and always have.  That being said, skaters are used to being harassed about skateboarding, some even for simply carrying their skateboards down the street. Years of these attitudes have put a bad taste in the skaters mouths about authority.  Forced to take their sport to the street, they have given many business owners a bad taste in their mouth after seeing the damage done to curbsides, etc.  I’m wondering if you’re really surprised that they pull an attitude at the sign of a badge though?  They know what the next words out of your mouth will be.  Not bashing you at all DC, but 2 decades of skateboarders have been conditioned to run when they see a badge.  They’ve also been conditioned that their exciting sport is looked upon with hatred from government and citizens alike.

You also state that the skaters don’t think to ask permission before skating anywhere.  Not sure I understand this, since most every lot in town is posted, who and where would they be asking permission to skate?  Again, they know the answer before asking permission.  Given that, it’s a decision for them of asking permission and not being allowed to skate, or just skating for a while before getting ran off the property, so they take their chances.

As far as the damage done, I’m with you on this one.  However, it is one of the main reasons I think we need to look at giving the skaters somewhere to skate without fear of punishment.  Curbs are just concrete, but nobody wants theirs covered with gooey wax or to have one with large chunks missing.  Most of the curbs they’ve waxed are in bad locations also, whether it is the bank in the center of town or stewartstown station.  Also, I don’t think that the kids necessarily want to skate at the bank or elsewhere, if they had a parking block or two on an empty lot, you would’nt see those curbs being abused ongoing.

Now for the liability issue.  I can tell you right now, there was probably a time when this would be a huge factor, but to say this and sue-happiness is the main reason there is no place to skate is outdated at best.  There are 100’s of municipalities in the United States similar to ours that have built public skateparks. You will however be hard pressed to find a handful of cases that relate to litigation brought against those facilities or municipalities. Some surprising facts on sports related injuries….

Estimated number of skateboard-related injuries for 1996 in U.S.- 35,788
Estimated number of in-line-related cases that same year- 102,911
Estimated number of roller skating-related cases that same year- 59,450
Estimated number of soccer-related cases that same year- 156,681
Estimated number of basketball-related cases that same year- 653,676
Estimated number of football-related cases that same year- 363,921
Estimated number of swimming pool-related cases that same year- 72,933
Estimated number of trampoline-related cases that same year- 83,399
source: National Electronic Injury Surveillance System; based on emergency room visit reports

Also, recent legislation changed the way some states now view skateboarding.  As of January 1, 1998 the California State Assembly Bill AB1296 was enacted as law. Basically this bill adds skateboarding to the list of Hazardous Recreational Activities (HRA’s) along with such sports as kayaking, mountain biking, skydiving, hang-gliding, and others. The bill basically states that: “skateboarding at a public skatepark is a HRA” if the person “is 14 years of age or older, the park is on public property, and the skating was stunt, trick, or luge.” As such, “neither public entities nor public employees are liable to any person who participates in a HRA.” Also, most existing laws insist that all skaters wear the appropriate protective gear (helmet, knee and elbow pads) and that signs stating the risks are posted. In layman’s terms this means that a city cannot be sued by someone injured in a public skatepark as long as all the above conditions are met. This takes the pressure off the local government’s liability and makes a skatepark more feasible. A similar amendment could be adopted in Pennsyvania with some support and letter writing.

Just some more food for thought on this long standing debate and issue for Stewartstown.  Just to reiterate, with our town growing so much, and more and more youth in town, it would be nice if the skaters had a controlled environment in order to skate peacefully. 

Crawdaddy
 

Very Good.....these things do work! I have accomplished what I set out to do.......ignite a spark in someone that could educate the members of council and possibly the recreation board as well, in hopes of actually doing something for the kids instead of complaining about them to us.....the guys with a badge.  Council meeting is Oct 7th and rec board meets later in the month.  A well thought out presentation may make a difference.  Thanks for coming out of your shell CD

Thanks for the information DC, it is appreciated

i’d like to respond to this topic. in spite of darecop 4502’s remark, “in hopes of actually doing something for the kids instead of complaining about them to us.....the guys with a badge.” the borough council does not hate skateboarders...or bicyclists...or scooterers (?). the reason that a skateboarding ‘park’ or facility of some type was denied in the past was strictly a liability issue. it is true that those issues have all but gone away. as far as i know, the rec board has revived the issue for consideration. i doubt if the council would have any objections, aside from cost to the non-skating taxpayers perhaps, to a proposal for a skateboarding facility. the ordinance prohibiting skateboarding in certain areas of the borough was enacted in response to a public outcry regarding skateboarders on the sidewalks who actually did endanger some of our elderly citizens. the fact that the skateboarders do not have “a place” does not in any way lessen their obligation to obey the law. the fact that our police officers are using discretion in enforcing that law will only last so long...so, it would behoove those borough residents who wish to see a skateboarding facility built to approach the rec board and/or council with a proposal. i believe the main issue would be adult supervision. 

A quick update on a number of topics:

Curfew: At this time children under the age of 16 are not allowed on the streets or in public places without a parent/guardian after 11:00PM.
Children 17 years old are not allowed to be on the streets or in public places after 12 midnight without a parent/guardian.
I should note that there are exceptions for kids returning home from work/school and just happen to live in the borough.  The ordinance allows the police to prevent kids from hanging out late at night unless there is a good reason.

Rec.Center/Teen Night: As Guy Hook mentioned the two biggest issues are volunteers to run the center on Friday Nights. The other reason it was discontinued was due to a low attendence. On average there would be 3-5 kids attending.  It’s my understanding that the CTC “Communities that Care’s” program will be running special events at the community building and that the events would rotate between the various communities.

Skateboarding:  In the Weekly Record that was published on 11/29/2002 residents were given the impression that the council was considering banning all skateboarding, roller skates, scooters, inline skates and other similar devices. While this was discussed it is not the borough current plan of action.
During the 12/2/02 Council meeting an ordinace was presented to the Council for review and will be advertised for adoption in the York newspapers. The council will vote on the ordinance at the January 6th meeting.

The ordinance as it is written bans skateboard and similar devices on Main Street Sidewalks, East and West Pennsylvania Ave, Rt 851, Hill Street between Rt851 and Main Street and along Ballast Lane. 
It also bans skateboarding and similar devices on Commercial property/retail property where it is posted. This also included the Community building and the Recreation grounds..

The side roads in the borough are still available as the goal was to move these activities off the heavily traveled roads.

I should also note that the Parks & Recreation Board is seriously looking at building a skate park. While there are lots of issues, questions and items that have to be resolved the board at this time is looking very favorably at this project.

Thanks,
Jeff Bruening
Councilman, Stewartstown Borough

:idea: just an idea for anyone thats interested. i live in stewartstown & i d j. i would be willing to do a d j dance night, one night a month ,maybe two nights, at the rec. center for the kids. a small fee at the door would cover my d j expenses, and no $ would have to come out of the rec. boards or anyone elses pocket. other organizations could sell refreshments to the kids plus it could help them as well. i think that would be fair & it gives the kids something to do and look forward to. ofcourse parents help would be needed to make it work. if anyone is interested in doing this please feel free to contact me at and maybe we can work it out. sean byndas stewartstown resident/dad/dj.

I’ve forwarded your suggestion to the other Hopewell Area Recreation & Park Board members and it can be discussed at our next meeting.

Thanks,
Jeff Bruening

Hi, I was involved with starting what was formerlly known as “the rec”.  As sort of a DJ there, I enjoyd being with the kids and I belived it to be very successful at a point.  The problem occured when the music/DJ was taken away.  (pain in the butt to hull equipment and the amp burnt up) I really belive that if it is started back up with music, the kids will turn on to it again.  But the idea of a cover charge could pose to be a problem.  If there was a cover charge, it would have to be very small.  I’m talking less than $1.  If I was that age, I wouldn’t pay anything more than 25 or 50 cents.  The idea that the rec was an open atmosphere might have had to do with its sucesss.  If the experience is only slightly fun for them, a youngster would probably rather spend the cover charge on candy or food than an OK time at a supervised area.  We also had trouble finding something else for them to do besides basketball.  Cost is always in issue with activities.  The question is, does anybody have an idea of what activities would be attractive to kids without being too costly or ruin the experience for others who chose not to participate in that activitiy. 

In response to Mr. Kirby’s post as to what the kids could do for little or no money?  How about a ‘soda bar’, think coffee house without the coffee, but soda and juices.  Have some music, some board games, books, magazines, ect.  Just a place for them to hang out and not be hassled.  If you are at all familiar with Baltimore and in particular Fells Point, think Daily Grind.  Of course, if this thing is going to have to be moved, that may be a lot of things to carry/tote/haul.  But at least people are waking up to the idea that the kids need something to do.  I remember being a teenager and while I didn’t do the conventional things (unless you consider hanging out in an empty warehouse in Baltimore listening to punk bands conventional), I know that whenever we were having fun, there was an adult somewhere telling us to stop or shutting the place down.  I still look back on those years fondly.
Anyway, the coffee house idea could work.  What about an early rave?  Just some ideas off the top of my head.  And cool!!  for the skate park.  There used to be one in Lutherville, Md in the late 80’s and it was very cool.  Some of my friends helped build it.  It wouldn’t hurt to have the Rec Board or whoever is going to build it get some input from the kids who are going to use it.  It would really stink to spend the time and money building the thing to have the kids turn their noses up at it (as in ‘that is lame, duuuude’).  Maybe have one or two kids give input, be a junior member of the board or something?  Just an idea.  I’m full of them. LOL
momma