Southern York County Life

Bobby102 - 08 January 2006 01:34 AM

I vote for getting rid of 70 million little school districts and having the counties control the school systems.  Not that the county gov’t isn’t as morally bankrupt or irresponsible, but at least it puts it all under one heading.  Just my 2 cents

I totally agree. At the very least, it’ll mean less administrators and less politicians we have to support.

The thing that cracks me up about this whole stadium thing is that there was just moaning and groaning about how the school can’t be expanded and is overflowing.  Why go through all this trouble of raising money (and I seriously doubt that you’d be able to raise enough so that our school taxes wouldn’t subsidize a new stadium) to build a stadium for a school that you may/may not be staying at, due to population?  Use the money to expand the school, and/or move to a bigger facility.

Please don’t get me wrong, it’s not that I am not in support of high school athletics, I’m all for it, especially to help keep kids in shape and to give them something to do, (because there’s SQUAT around here for them to do, but that’s a completely different thread).  But it seems excessive to use the money in a way that may/may not turn out to be a waste, should the school need to move.

How can the HS be too small? It’s brand new! Is the school board that incompetent to spend all that money on a school that’s the best money can buy only to find out it already doesn’t meet the needs of the school district? We need to get people on the board that are more loyal to taxpayers then they are to their pals that work in education. It’s not going to happen if we get what happened in Nov where the Hopewell school board member ran unopposed. I just hope something happens before I go broke.

I have a son in the HS. I was talking to several faculty and staff a month or so ago. They told me that the HS is ok for now, but the future growth of the area would make it too small to accomodate all the kids. Just walking through the halls, it seems to be just about at capacity. I’m wondering if the ‘consultants’ that were hired to design the school had good numbers regarding projected growth to work with, the school board decided to downsize the consultants suggestion to save money, or the area just simply grew faster than expected.
Are the elementary schools becoming overcrowded also? Middle schools didn’t seem too bad when my son was there, but each bldg. was only holding 2 grades.

On the other topic. I attended a couple of HS football games this season. I didn’t have any problems finding a seat. The games were no where near filled to capacity. What benefit could there possibly be in building a new stadium? Maybe the boosters could spend the money to upgrade seating and re-sod the field. That, in my opinion, is all that would be needed. (well, needed is a strong word, how about wanted?)

I would also welcome a county wide school system. It seems that Pennsylvania is awash in government and waste at every level. Too many levels. Especially since a board that can affect taxes in a district having members run un-opposed as Tim_K mentions. We need more qualified individuals to run the system, and to do that would require expanding the geographic area that these individuals can be chosen from. If you were to hire a CFO for a multi-million dollar company, would you limit your search to a small geographic area or expand your search in hopes of finding the most qualified and successful candidate?

My daughter started the 9th grade in the new high school the year it opened.  It was just barely big enough then.  There were not even enough lockers and kids had to share.  So I know in four years there has only been growth and by now (the year after she graduated) it has only gotten worse.

The newest part of the school, a hallway connecting the ends of two wings, was an expensive afterthought.  That did not add any classroom space it only aleviated the traffic between classes.  This construction was determined to be a “need”.  If you have ever been in school when classes change you would agree that this was a good thing.

I dont understand how a stadium can be described as a “need”??  A “want” yes.  It would be nice to have a new stadium, maybe more people would attend games. I have nothing against raising school spirit, but when you consider the number of people who dont have children in the system, will it in any way benefit them??  I dont believe there is any arguement that would convince me that a stadium would benefit my child’s education.

Benefitting my child’s education, isn’t that what the school board’s decisions are supposed to be about???

Just my 2 cents.

The formula and rules might have changed but in the past, when a new school was being built, the district could only project five years out for sizing for growth. If that is the case, that needs to be changed. Also, it could have been worked with… plan for five years officially but design so you can add on later. Don’t build yourself into a corner. Of course, you might have to dump some of the “sexy” options in your design in order to accomplish this!

I also favor one county wide school system. Eliminating 16 Superintendents and 16 Assistants in favor of a single Superintendent with maybe 4 assistants, a CFO instead of a business manager that can’t present her own budget, etc…

We also need people to run for school board. It is a hard seat to fill - no pay, lots of hours. Even if we had to pay a county wide school board a small stipend, it would probably be worth it.

A county wide school district would be a big mistake.  All of our local dollars would be thrown into a pot and doled out amongst all the districts, including York City!! Residents of SE district would likely pay more taxes in than were distributed to the our district schools. Keeping the budgeting process at the local district level would work, if we had a school board that considered the fiscal needs of the entire community.  The cost of local administration is outrageous, and there is ample opportunity to improve the service while reducing the cost.

As far as people running for the school board, I assume it would be hard to find people.  After all, you are looking for people who have an interest, people to bring about change.  I would think that most people who think there is such a need (other than just lowering taxes) have already decided to not use the school system by placing their children in private school or home schooling them.  If that is the case, they would be busy trying to support that decision, where is the time to get involved? 

I have made the decision, I will not use the system, but I sure would love to see the taxes lowered.  I think Alex (Bobby, Tim, Barnyard, etc...) are absolutely right about changing to a County run system.  Just the overhead for each district makes that case.  But let’s be honest, there is a lot more that needs to fixed than just the tax rate.

Pay more?? I really don’t see that happening. I pay enough and will leave if that happens.

There may be ample opportunity to reduce cost, but that hasn’t happened. When do you say enough is enough? With this possible new stadium, possible expansion, I rather pull from a county wide pool, instead us just footing the bill for unnecessary ‘feel good’ projects and bad planning. Although, other, more desirable school systems in the county wouldn’t want to foot the bill for our past mistakes either, I think it would be them who would lose out in that deal, not South Eastern.

Maybe so.  Dover SD is in York county.  Do you want to support any lawsuits they may face, or pay the legal bills they have already incurred?  In a county wide system, we’d all have to pay.  If the assesment issues with Excelon are resolved and SE gets a big chunk of money, do you want to send that to the county and let them spread it out?

In regards to the tax rates continuing to skyrocket (especially if it’s funding ‘questionable’ projects), what I see happening is this:

1) Tax rates continue to rise at a ridiculous rate (like they have been)
2) People who can’t/won’t pay the ever increasing tax rates (and see no benefit to the community or the school SYSTEM - not just one school) will begin to start looking elsewhere for residence
3) You have a great influx of people wanting to leave the area.  Too many houses for sale from owners who want out vs. too high tax costs to the people looking to buy them (in addition to interest rates on the rise) result in people selling their houses for whatever they can get for them.  Therefore, our property values wind up in the stinker. 

Sure, there are pros/cons regarding both sides of the issue in regards to a county wide school system.  Maybe it would help, maybe it wouldn’t.  But the system we have in place right now doesn’t seem to be managed very well.  And it seems, just like borough/township councils, many people won’t/can’t get involved because of the time involved.  Many people work full-tim and have families.  They don’t have the time to run for council or school board.  Maybe if we had a school board that was paid (and let’s face it, with the tax increase, you’d think they’d be able to swing it), you’d get more action.  Again, maybe not. 

But the county wide system works in other states.  How many counties do you know of that don’t have both good & bad regions?  From what I have heard/read about SESD, I wouldn’t be so quick to say that we’re one of the good regions.

So, when we as a society decide to turn education over to the bureaucracy in general, and to a largely unaccountable school board in particular, why is anyone surprised at what happens?  Would you really expect anything at all to be different?  The government isn’t particularly good at anything, if you haven’t noticed.

There’s no incentive for the board to control costs, there’s no incentive for the administration to control costs.  As a matter of fact, when you include the egos and power involved, it seems pretty clear that the folks involved in this abomination want nothing but *more* money, power, and shiny things.

I’ll have as little stake or involvement as possible.  It’s a bad idea that we’re burdened with, so I’ll vote for the small-government candidate (if there is one), do my civic duties and move on.  Eventually the whole thing will collapse for one reason or another, and that’s the best I can hope for at this point. 

Call me a cynic, but SESD is getting exactly what they (we) asked for.

To your question, yes, I do think it should be spread out.  Regarding Dover lawsuits, seems to me that lawsuits are happening anywhere in the public school system because of all of the childish differences adults want to fight about.  SESD getting a settlement, well, that could pay for lawsuits.  I’m staying to my position of course, I don’t know that I’m right.  But, I know there would be good and bad to the change, but bottomline, there has to be a change.  It is supposed to be about what is best for our children, for them, for their future.  That is not what’s it’s turned into. 

I look at it this way, we as taxpayers are being taken advantage of.  There is obviously no accountability, if we were larger and stronger, maybe we would be heard.  The entire public school system is in shambles, I don’t care, I will not use it.  What I want is my taxes lowered, actually what I want is a choice.  We should all be given a choice and the schools should have to compete for our money.  I think if that was the case the size of the buildings wouldn’t be an issue at all.  It will never be fixed unless they have to market themselves.  Also, in a perfect world, people without children should be given huge reduction in the tax, since it is a school tax.

I am relatively new to the area, during the decision making process that resulted in this tax hike, were there any salary reductions, layoffs, benefit reductions?

Agree completley.  The root cause to the failure isn’t the size or borders of the taxing authority, but their failure to show fiscal responsibility.  I’d rather fix (vote in a board representative of community sentiment) than relinquish power to a larger county beauracracy.  If the parents of students could “vote” with their dollars via school vouchers, you might see some administrators and teachers worried about their jobs if half the student population opted for private or out of district schools. How do you do this if the board members don’t care if they are voted off?  I don’t know, but solving it at the local level seems much more viable then turning it over to the county.

Regarding county wide school systems…

1. If York County were one school district, all schools in the county would benefit from the industry and commercial business that we all frequent but is not in our area. I am talking about Shrewsbury, Red Lion, York, etc. SESD has very little commercial or industrial tax base.

2. Lawsuits for past mistakes… such is life with mergers. It happens in business too. SESD has had their share of them as well.

3. Reduction in overhead costs for administration and management: This is a big plus. There are 16 school districts in York County. By combining, we could hire a good CFO to handle the business side of things with a good staff to back them. Right now, I don’t have much faith in our business manager. Same goes for all the administrative positions and many support positions.

4. The school board could be made up of representatives from each “district”. In other words, set up wards like they do in many cities and have reps elected accordingly. Pay them a small stipend to make it worth their while. Something along the lines of what township supervisors make (about $1875 per year).

5. By combining, we combine pensions, benefits, etc. Helps to level expense. Salaries could be leveled across the county thus maybe allowing us to get some better educators since our salaries are currently lower.

6. By combining, we can also allow kids to move to different schools easier if needed. Schools can be built near major population centers easier. It would make for more efficient bussing. Special programs could also be shared easier.

It works in Maryland and Virginia and many other states. The system we have today is broken. The school board does what they want and nothing can seem to stop them. The reality of life is the Feds and State already control a lot of what they do by forcing programs like NCLB down on them.

As far as taxes are concerned, property tax is for the birds. For commercial and industrial property it is one thing, but residential property tax gets outdated too fast. I like the “Fair Tax” plan being proposed at the Federal level. Check it out at http://www.fairtax.org It calls for a nationwide sales tax and the total replacement of all taxes: income, estate, social security, capital gains, etc. A similar program could be used to replace the PA State Income Tax and County Income taxes. It could also replace the school taxes collected locally if done right. Might be something worth exploring…

The program the House voted on before Christmas is a compromise - it allegedly reduces property tax by 50% by using the non-existant gambling money, slight expansion of sales tax and an increas in income tax. It is making the system more complex.