You could be right that solving it at a local level could be easier.  All I can do is think back to my childhood, I was raised in a county run system, but I attended Catholic school until high school.  My parents struggled so much with the tuition that they let us all make the decision at that point.  Like most teenage girls would, I opted to be with my buddies for high school.  I never remember my parents complaining about the taxes (and they would have), probably because when it is a county/property tax there are many other things included in that besides school funding.  I suppose they figured they were paying for roads, trash, sewer, things are totally different here.  When it’s broken down and called a school tax, it can burn you up when you don’t use it and it goes up so high as to force you to make some really tough decisions.  When I moved to the area I thought the taxes were completely reasonable, now totally opposite, there was no middle ground.  Just went from bearable to out of this world!

Fixing at the local level…

I would support this right away if I thought it could be done. There are several problems to work through… I am not shooting this down, just opening these things for discussion.

1. Ousting the current school board or replacing a significant number of members. Getting people to run, getting people out to vote.
2. Reducing expenses - much of the budget is contractual… teachers salaries, benefits, pensions, etc. Many things are mandated such as special ed programs.
3. Fixing the mistakes of the past when it comes to buildings and expansion.
4. Dealing with growth that exceeds what we can plan for.
5. Lack of funding by the state (funding is only 39% from the state when it should be 50%).
6. Never ending list of unfunded mandates from state and fed levels.
7. Broken tax system that puts an unfair burden on the home owner, many of which do not have the flexible income to handle the tax increase when their property value goes up.

So will you be running??

I second the nomination!

I applied for an open school board seat a few years ago. There were six of us applying. The school board selected the candidate they felt could do the job the best. I think they picked a good candidate personally. I am not “sore” about “losing”.

What I do know is this… it takes a lot of time. I knew Judy Shelly very well. We went through EMT training together. She encouraged me to apply for the open position. She was a tax payer’s friend… While they meet twice a month, there is a lot of prep work that goes into meeting. Anyone that runs needs to understand the true requirement… there are committee meetings from time to time as well.

Would I run? Sure I would consider it, but Region 2 is not where we need the most change. We need change in Region 1 and 3. Region 1 is Hopewell Township and Stewartstown Borough. Region 2 covers East Hopewell, Cross Roads, Fawn Grove and Fawn Township. Region 3 covers Delta and Peach Bottom Township.

Well, even if not, you are certainly doing your part already.

Most of these are true issues, mistakes of the past.  They will be painful to fix indeed.  How to battle a teachers union that survives on lack of accountability, rising health insurance, pensions, The question is, can we prevent from making similar mistakes in the future without subscribing to “from each his own the best of his abilities, to each according to his needs”.  Moving from a wealth tax to a consumption tax is the first start, for all levels local, state and federal.  Accountability My fear is that it will never be implemented, as it is to easy for the people to protest with this type of tax.

Wealth vs. Consumption taxes…

You mentioned that it is was easy to protest a consumption tax. I agree to a point. If everything is taxed, I am going to have to break down and buy eventually. Under the “Fair Tax” plan, every new thing is taxed at the retailer. If I buy a shirt, milk, or go to the doctor, I pay the tax (about 23%).

If this type of plan was enacted, all of the taxes added along the way from manufacturer to consumer (about 22%) would be gone so the net is a wash just about on cost of goods. One of the areas of opposition to this is from the poor or those that support the poor. They seem to think it hurts them - well, they built in an interesting feature… a rebate per month from the government to everyone (notice - everyone) for the amount of spending they do up to the poverty level. It is based on standard expenditures made by your family size.

Your yearly tax return is nothing more than an accounting of your family size with SSNs. That is all. The IRS would be abolished as a result (isn’t that alone worth it?). Corporate taxes would be gone as well. If you are a small business owner, you would simply collect sales tax on the goods and services you sell and submit it to your Department of Revenue.

I can protest wealth taxes too… it is called cheating the system. How many people on here have ever upgraded their home without permits? Raise your hands everyone!! How many have an honest tax appraisal on their home? Is that finished basement listed? What about that extra bedroom you added in the attic?

How many of you have ever collected tips as part of your job? Did you claim them? I used to deliver pizza in college. Tips were fantastic money where I was. My pay was $4.50 an hour, but my tips were about $12.00 per hour before taxes. I can tell you this… no one claimed them. I will claim ignorance then… young and dumb, plus management encouraged us to “hide” them and none of us were classified as “tipped” employees. How many of you run a small business and love to deal in cash because you can hide the income?

The fact is the current system thrives on cheats. Look at how many books are written each year showing you how to get the most out of your tax refund. There is a whole industry of tax consultants whose only purpose in life is to help you screw the government out of tax money.

I would rather have a consumption tax across the board. It would also allow us to tax the illegal businesses such as drug dealers and black market traders. If they buy plastic baggies to wrap up their drugs, they pay tax. While I don’t support these businesses, at least we could get something out of them and use it towards shutting them down!

My 2 cents worth....

I inherited a house in Baltimore County with 2.5 Acres worth about $250,000. I live in my primary residence in Stewartstown that is worth about the same give or take the market.

I did a comparison of the taxes. School, County, Local property taxes of both states. I then factored in Sewer/Water/Trash fees.
I also factored in that in Maryland the Income taxes are higher 5% for the state and 55% of the State’s rate for Baltimore county using my both my salary and my wife’s salary for 2005.

When it was all said and done the difference was a little over $300.00

It costs $300.00 more in to live in Stewartstown than in Baltimore County. But my public education which was a primary reason for moving here in my opinion is better and safer. The community is smaller, the quality of life is better.
Drugs and violence and alot less prevalent. A new home with more land costs $100,000 less than in Baltimore County so I get more for the dollar and I’ve seen my investment appreciate 25% or more in less than 6 years.

All of this is well worth $300.00 and then some.  Now I’m not saying I’m happy about paying more in taxes but it’s not that bad either..
In Anne Arundal county their assessments just went up 100% with taxes increasing about 22% for next year. Most of the Eastern Shore/Wester Shore communities are getting sewer fees if they have septic systems per new DEP rules to protect the Chesapeake Bay.
Baltimore City already has higher tax rates than anyother county, just like York City.

I should note that I understand how this is a problem for seniors on a fixed income who have taxes going up but the problem is occuring everywhere and not just in Southern York County.

I agree with your assessment totally, I grew up in Harford County, moved here from Baltimore county.  The point is, one of the main selling points for moving here was the fact that it was safer, insurance costs were lower, taxes lower, even groceries.  It was a win/win situation, a better environment to raise a family.  The fact of the matter is, it was not a gradual increase, it was a shock to me and my wallet.  We made other commitments to spend that money saved.  Maybe long time residents saw it coming, but I sure didn’t.  Just because other communities, and other states have increased, doesn’t mean mine has to.  That is why I moved here, are you saying, just accept it, no dissent? Especially without seeing a return.  I just want to know if there were other considerations and cuts made before the burden fell on all of us.  No one has answered that.

I answered everything you need to know earlier in this thread.  It’s inconcieveable that a public school board would behave in any other manner.  Ever since the tide turned and the majority of the public sees the government as the grantor of gifts and benefits, this behavior is 100% consistent.  The mob has figured out to vote themselves “free money”, and they’ll do it every time, even from the “conservative” Rebublicans. (See the $500B Medicare bill.)

Why do you think the United States is in ir-repairable debt, when we’re supposedly the greatest industrial nation in the entire history of mankind?  Do you realize that the *per capita* number on federal debt is currently over $27,000 ?  http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

There are some drawbacks to democracy, and being at the mercy of the mob is one of them.  Combined tax rates are over 50%, and we still need more money, “for the children”, “to fight the war on terra”, etc.

Until the fundamental structure of American civics changes, there will be nothing but more of the same.

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence; from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependency back again into bondage.”
--Sir Alex Fraser Tytler, Scottish jurist and historian writing over 200 years ago on the fall of the Athenian Republic

I would never say “just accept it”.  However the trick is how you “fight it”.

Some people go to meetings and shout at the school boards and others work behind the scenes to make things happen.

The group of citizens that has been created is a great start to the solution. Ideas can be discussed. But more is required that involves time and dedication from select members throughout the school district.  These folks will need to step up and decide to run for office, run as a group with a common platform to bring about change where necessary, common sense where it is been lost, bring fiscal responsibility to where it is not, expand on successful programs, drop programs that are not successful.

Perhaps the group before going public with election thoughts can work with the school board to create a “finance liason” group to work with a small group of teachers, building superintendents, cleaning crews etc.. to look at where our dollars are being spent every day and look for ways to save money..  If a special committee with the school cannot be created, try to work with a single board member who can work behind the scenes to make these things happen. It doesn’t really matter how the savings happens, as long as it does happen.

- Could we put timers in the class rooms/hallways so that lights go out automatically after midnight if they are left on accidentally?

- Are any of the Exit lights still using 15W lights instead of the 1.5W LED bulbs. NOTE: LED Exit Light bulbs typically last for 20 years and pay for themselves in 2-3 years.

- Are we buying toilet paper/paper towels on a district wide basis or at each school. Could we save some $$ buy buying in bulk?

- Are we taking advantage of ALL of the FREE money programs like Campbells Soup, Giant Store A+ Plus, Tyson Chicken A+ programs?

- Are all of the computers/printers being turned OFF at night?

To pboin:

I think you hit on something very good there… look at how things are around here… me, me, me. Give me more. I want my MTV and I want it now (on a brand new High Def, wide screen, flat screen with surround sound). I want a fancy vacation and a fancy car. I want, want, want. When I can’t get it, I buy on credit. When I can’t pay my bills, I rely on the government to bail me out in some fashion.

I don’t care who is in office as long as I get what I want. I am so dang lazy, I won’t even go vote, because who cares… I didn’t learn about civic responsibility in school because my education was dumbed down to make sure everyone was a superstar when they graduated. All I learned was that I can make big money playing the lottery, gambling or by suing someone because my coffee was too hot. I am not responsible for anything I do. It is all your fault.

Pretty sad state of affairs… of course, the above is a cynical reply, and not the beliefs of the author - just his take on how many feel or act in this day and age.

While I have agreed in the past that taxes are about comparable to Baltimore County, that is as a whole.  The difference in Baltimore County is that you are paying property tax.  Therefore, the perception is that you are being taxed on your land, and the county will do with the money as they please.  Sure, not ‘ideal’, but that’s the way it is.  The big difference and appeal was the actual price of real estate, not the taxes...at least for us.

However, when you move to PA, and the taxes are completely broken out as they are, and you have a ‘school tax’ that is designated for your school district (and not the county district), your perception is that the money will be going to the schools.  When our taxes rise astronomically like they have, and at the same time you have people complaining that the schools are too small, not expandable, there are rampant drug issues in and around the schools and we want to build a new stadium, you put the brakes on.  You start to wonder “What the hell is all of my money going to support?”

Certainly I’m aware that there are maintenance issues, salaries, and all of the normal expenditures.  But after hearing that salaries for our school district are below the average, the classes are starting to get crowded, kids are sharing lockers, the possibility that if the school does need to expand it will have to move, etc., you begin to wonder “HUH?” You (not you, but the board) have taken all of this extra money and done what with it?  Mismanaged it?

Sure, everyone out here on this thread along with all of the ‘Bus stop mamas’ that complain to each other have the option to run for school board.  But, as you know from serving on the council, it is a job that will require a good number of hours, with no compensation.  Not to mention that the job itself is, I’m sure, demanding in its’ nature, thereby not cut out for everyone.  And not everyone would have the qualifications and/or experience needed to correct the problems.  In the meantime, we’re stuck with this. 

IMHO, I don’t necessarily think ousting the current board and getting a new one will solve the problem.  In fact, it could throw the situation into utter chaos.  Especially if an unprepared inexperienced board manages to get elected/appointed based solely on the premise of ‘out with the old/in with the new’.  We need a school board that knows what they need to do and how to go about getting it done. 

Alex brought up a really good point about not having any commercial industry in SESD.  There’s nothing.  And let me say right now, I’m perfectly alright with that.  I moved to Stewartstown for a reason, and that reason is because I didn’t want to live in Shrewsbury.  However, we all live in York County.  Many of the school districts are in completely rural areas and probably suffer the same effects as we do.  There are probably also districts that are quite OK with money, based on the population, and ‘supplements’ (all of them) that they receive.  Why not join together, and help even each other out.  There’s the issue of taking on other districts ‘problems’.  Are we that narrow minded not to see that other districts would be taking on our problems as well? 

I don’t think that this system itself (many little districts) works, anymore.  Certainly at one time it did and was a good setup.  But times change and in order to keep in line, sometimes we must change, and, Heaven forbid, the government around us.  Think of the possibilities if you combined the school districts together.

Not to mention that if we had county wide standards, there would be an evenness across the board.  That would touch on salaries, education level, activities, etc.  Maybe there are sports or activities that don’t draw a huge crowd in one area or another.  But collectively, there would be enough to support it county wide.  Why limit what options our children have to a local level?

Right on.  How can we expect elected officials to exhibit fiscal responsibility when the population they represent cannot?  Savings rates among private citizens are at an all time low, debt to income ratios are through the roof, personal deficit spending is the norm, not the exception now.  Fact is, Alex hit it the nail right on the head.  There is now a culture of entitlement, where everyone should have an equal lifestyle, no matter how hard you work or how much you sacrifice.