Southern York County Life

From the York Dispatch today…

Property tax help: Merge school districts
Legislators suggest consolidation in an effort to save money
CHRISTINA KAUFFMAN The York Dispatch

Two York County state legislators are considering measures to save property taxpayers money by merging the county’s 16 school districts into one or into a few large school districts.
Reps. Stan Saylor, R-Windsor Township, and Beverly Mackereth, R-Spring Grove, said the consolidation could eliminate extra administrators—school districts’ most costly employees—and save money on purchasing.

Though no legislation has been put forth, the two representatives and other members of the York County delegation have been discussing a referendum that would allow voters to decide if they wanted to consolidate.

The school districts would maintain their names, buildings and sports teams, but they would be managed by one administration, Saylor said.

Currently, each school district has a superintendent and at least one assistant superintendent, Saylor said.

Saylor said most of those positions could be eliminated, leaving one countywide superintendent. Other duplicate management
positions could also be eliminated, he said.

“I do believe that we can save millions of dollars in York County, not only by eliminating positions, but savings on purchasing,” he said.

Property tax con cern: Mackereth said she first began contemplating regionalization while serving on YorkCounts, a countywide nonprofit community improvement group.

“In my mind, we have a crisis dealing with our property taxes,” she said. “People look at us day after day after day like, ‘fix this.’ We’ve got to start right here.

“We need to look at ways to solve some problems ourselves, not just rely on Harrisburg.”

She said the state’s proposed tax reform, whatever legislators decide to do, is not going to be enough for York County property taxpayers.

Legislators from areas that are not growing as quickly as York
County don’t support the same measures as York County’s legislators, she said.

Mackereth said there is still a lot of research to do before she would support a referendum, but she supports the “common sense” ideas behind regionalization; fire and police departments across York County have already begun to regionalize to save money and pool resources.

Mackereth said she supports the creation of three or four school districts, merged by regions, to streamline school operations and save money.

Wants ‘equal and ade quate’: She said the tax base could be shared among regions, so every child in York County had access to “equal and adequate education.”

Currently, each school district spends a different amount of money per student per year. Districts with a low base, such as York City, Northeastern and Dover Area, can’t afford to spend as much, she said.

The city is especially challenged because many of its children come from low-income families, she said.

“You cannot have all those children from low-income families in one school district,” she said. “It doesn’t work.”

If a regional school district shared its collective tax base, that region would spend the same amount on each student each year, she said.

The school districts could also decide on a common pay rate for teachers. For example, she said, Dallastown Area pays its teachers $10,000 more per year to start than Dover Area.

Equity issues: And there are other issues of equity, such as classes offered in affluent school districts, such as York Suburban, that other students don’t have access to.

“Why wouldn’t we look at all York County kids and say, ‘You all deserve the best education you can get’?”

So what’s the obstacle?

“People giving up their kingdoms,” Saylor said. “I think we all want to make sure we are able to control things. ... Some people may fear things getting bigger.”

There are 16 school boards in York County. Each school board has nine board members. After merging, there could be only one board, with one person from each former school district representing, Saylor said.

About 50 years ago, Pennsylvanians were angered when the state’s 2,500 school districts merged into the current 501, Saylor said.

He said he doesn’t want to mandate regionalization, but wants voters to decide through a referendum.

Tax base could help: At last night’s city school board meeting, board president Jeff Kirkland said the city’s financial struggles could be eased by a countywide or regional tax base, and students could have more opportunities.

In Eastern York, school board president Judith Higgins said the countywide tax base could also benefit Eastern, where there aren’t large businesses to help foot property tax bills.

One countywide tax base would mean one tax rate for the county’s residents, “as opposed to what zip code you live in,” she said.

But she said regionalization would likely be a “hard sell,” not only for administrators who could lose their jobs, but for some residents concerned about a possible loss of local control.

-- Reach Christina Kauff man at 505-5434 or ckauf .

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYY!!!  At least it’s a start in what I feel is a ‘better’ direction than where we’re at now.  (Notice I didn’t say right direction - this could fail too - but letting it continue the way it is isn’t working either - so I’m open to change)

Never happen.  By its nature, Government only grows larger; never smaller.

If anything like this does happen I’m betting the ‘local’ school boards will stay in place and a larger county board will be created to ‘oversee’ the local boards.  Of course they will get their larger tax base to suck the money out of but surprisingly, it won’t help the schools (throwing money at a problem never helps solve it); it will just bring them all down to the lowest common denominator.

Well, the current system is obviously broken. Nothing meaningful is being done. I am curious as to what you think ought to be done?

Throw ideas out there… the problem is that up until now, no one in Harrisburg has done anything because there has never been enough support from rural areas. We are fast becoming a suburban county all around and with that comes a different attitude, more involvement, more visibility.

I know throwing more money at something does not help, but a tax base that is spread more evenly seems better than letting the residential property owners bear the weight for rural school districts. It is not a matter of throwing more money… it is about lightening up our (taxpayer) load.

I believe reducing the school boards in size is a great idea, although I do not believe it will ever happen any time soon. The local school boards and superintendent’s will NOT be willing to give up their control, power and taxing authority. I am as frustrated as any other taxpayer out there regarding what is currently going on with the local SD’s of this area, but don’t hold your breath for this to happen.

My SD which is Dallastown has been on a never ending spending spree for a long time and I do not believe that they, the board members or the Supt know how to stop it, nor do I believe that they want to. Dallastown has is one of the top, if not the top SD in costs per student, there teachers are paid well above other districts, its a fact that teachers want into Dallastown because of the pay and benes at D’town. The D’town SD is currently going to demand a maximum tax increase AGAIN! for the 05/06 budget and yet no one seems to care? I believe my SD board members and Supt are out of control on spending issues. Instead of just demanding more money, how about looking into controlling your costs. If it means cutting some programs, more students per teacher ( Its now at 16 per teacher i think, could be wrong) there have to be avenues that can be pursued to reduce spending.
They are currently going to build a new school to the tune of $53 million, are they going to build a cost efficient building or are they going to build another Taj Majal.....I think the later will be the case, all at your expense.

I think the real answer is to have full, 100% funding from the state, as a central authority dispensing the dollars to the local school districts. We have to remove the power given as it now, otherwise in years to come you will NOT be able to afford the home in which you worked hard to own....opps excuse me, you don’t really own it, your local SD actually owns its, you just rent it from them.

I had a conversation recently with Sandra Haulsee, President of the South Eastern Tax Reform Coalition.  They are planning a night meeting for the public, but said they are having a problem finding a place to hold the meeting.  She said when she tells a “place” who they are, they are advised no dates are available.  She found this in Delta and Stewartstown, so they may go back to Fawn VFW.

Sandra explained the Tuesday a.m. meetings are for the Coalition’s Board.  They discuss where they are, what the next steps should be, etc.  They are looking at South Eastern’s actual spending and, needless to say, there is a lot of waste.  The Coalition is much more active than we are aware of—they have met with Gov. Rendell, but were not warmly received.  They have also met with the South Eastern School Board.  Upon explaining how many residents will be selling/losing their homes due to their inability to pay the school tax, the Board suggested these residents take a reverse mortgage!!!  This is absolutely ludicrous and arrogant, as far as I’m concerned.

The Coalition is asking for “impact” letters by March 3, I think.  In other words, what impact are our school taxes having on the residents - buying less food, skipping medicine, etc.

I asked Sandra to post info/updates on this forum and she said she registered and will be posting info soon.

I think as many residents as can make the public meeting should attend.  The South Eastern Tax Reform Coalition can present a unified front for all of us and can use our support.

who exactly names these board members to the coalition??  I didn’t see their names on my election ballots. 

to those of you who think a county wide school district is the answer you are sadly mistaken.  in sesd we have no industrial tax base only home owner.  i heard people comment that we would fair better in a county wide set-up.  which isn’t true.  spring grove and dallastown are building new schools in the 50 something million dollar range.  we went bare bones and built a high school for 26 million 6 years ago and are at near capacity now.  our board tried to be fiscally responsible and now the will soon be needing more space for our growing population.  a series of additions now may cost more than what the initial building did 6 years ago.  we should have went ahead and built the 35 million dollar school and been set for 10-15 years instead the board took the concern for our pocketbooks over good sensible spending and look what will be happening.  there are no current talks about renovations but i hear the 8th grade class in se is the largest class se had ever had. 
lets say in 2010 york county goes to a county wide school district not only do we pay for our high school but everyone elses.  york high, central, spring grove, dallastown, k-d, shrewsbury es, red lion, and so on.  who paid the least for their building, we did. 
our gripe right now is that pa isn’t giving se the taxes they deserve yet you’re going to trust york county to divie out the taxes fairly, what is fairly.
they will set a county wide mill rate maybe 16 mills, where are the homes with the highest assessments?  in southern york county, so SYCSD, SESD, RLSD, SWSD, and DASD get hammered.  i’d rather pay 17 mills and see SE get 35 million for their budget than pay 16 mills and see SE get 30 million for their budget.  the people in some parts of york city will make out like bandits because their run down, dalapidated homes that are assessed at $30,000.  they’d pay under $600 for school taxes so we pick up their slack.
and with no child left behind what do we do with a districts that are falling behind throw more programs at it.  programs cost money.  the way i see it is york city is the only one to benefit from a county school district.
please folks be as informed as possible before we assume the best and meet head on with the worst.  if the MD way is so damn good why did we all leave???

with some of the comments in the newspaper it seems that Mr. Saylor is out of the loop on how things are operating here in yprk county.  the districts already purchase jointly through the IU to save money of supplies, insurance, and other things.

millions can be saved a year, drive through the SW area of baltimore county schools, look at all the schools with ply wood over broken windows.  the plywood has been their for several years now.  the county wide maintenance crews that mow the grass at the schools every 14 days.

this talk of county wide schools scares me, i’ve seen it first hand

when i win the powerball tonight i will pay everybody in SESDs school taxes for 2006.  that will give everyone extra time to get their taxes squared away for 2007.  god bless the lottery.  just hope 100 other people don’t also win it with me.

For all of you DASD taxpayers, lets talk a little about what your school board members and Supt Weinberg are up to these days.  The new school they are going to build has a projected cost of $53 million, I think we all know that the actual cost with over runs will probably far exceed the the $53 million.  Anyway their design concept is to be a school within a school, which is code word for this is the most expensive way to build, but who cares we can just raise the taxes and they meaning YOU will have to pay.

This concept of Weinberg’s is going to have not one, but THREE administrative offices which will mean additional staff to fill them so they can continue in the duplication of services that they seem to be so proud of around here, it will also have multiple, 3 I think health centers instead of just one, so that also will require additional staff to fill.  And they have decided to not only have architect who’s firm would normally be the project manager, but DASD will now hire a another company for who knows how much to be the project manager, just keep spending!  And they have also given Weinberg the keys to the vault, he has at his discretion the ability to submit change orders of up to $25K WITHOUT board approval, no big deal there i guess since the board has always just been his rubber stamp.  DASD homeowners, get ready, their coming for your paycheck again and this time its going to be all of it!

Here’s a thought - and it’s directed at the people in SESD who don’t see any possible benefits in a county wide system.

Since KDHS is almost at capacity, and the district has boomed in growth, and SESD is pretty large, why not think about splitting it?  Of course, this would make 17 districts.  But, KDHS could still be used for the district it remains in, and a new district would have to be configured with a new HS built. 

For those that are saying ‘Build another HS?’ - We’re going to have to do that anyway, from what I gather.  KDHS is almost at capacity and it seems to be the general consensus that it’s not expandable.  That means a whole new school.  So, what to do with the old one?  Keep it a HS, in a separated district.

Just another option.

Of course, that’s not going to help the $$ issues.....

Here is another thought, these school board members go on retreat each year, maybe more than once. Last year I believe it was in San Diego CA.  This was also done at our taxpayer expense and what do you think they learned or accomplished at these reteats other than ways to increase their spending? Here is the thought....how about if they want to attend in the future it is on their own dime? How many will still think it is a important meeting for them to attend if they are paying? If i sound frustrated, well I am, these school boards are out of control and need to look at ways to reduce costs.

School designs are a big problem… the formula they are allowed to use to project growth only allows I believe a five year period. Of course, looks like they missed even that since the school is not five years old yet.

They never learn… SEMS West had the same problem - no way to expand. Schools need to be built to allow for expansion at a reasonable cost. Schools also need to be designed to be functional and simple. We don’t need the Taj Mahal.

I am afraid the only way we are going to see change at the district level is if the district loses control over management. We don’t have the tax base to support any more school debt. We can’t elect good school board members because no one wants the job - the pay sucks - there is none. Look at how many members have been on the board for many, many years, always running unopposed. At least at a higher level, a school board would be a paid position most likely (not a full time job by any means, but at least some compensation).

Is one school district the answer? Who knows… I do know the current system is broken. I don’t see anyone coming forth with any better ideas right now other than “decrease spending.” Good luck on that one… current administration and school board think they don’t spend enough so you are fighting a losing battle. No one opposes them so they can do what they want.

If the gripe now is that PA doesn’t give us our fair share, then why didn’t our board and other elected representatives go after the state instead of the taxpayer?  Does the state really owe us money or is this an opinion?  If it is fact, then please tell me why there isn’t more of a push to get it from them.  I hope they put it to the people to vote.  And I hope all sides present their views, even it doesn’t get changed to a county wide system, at least that will push the issue to the forefront and those that remain will have to live up to the promises they made (at least I would hope). 
I don’t think anyone is saying that a county wide system is the absolute best way to run things, I can say in all honesty, all I care about is cheaper.  I think most of the new money thrown at any public school system gets wasted.  Public schools are funded more than any other time in our country’s history and they still suck.  It doesn’t take more money to fix it, it needs to be run like a business, they get a free pass, and we give it.  It takes competition, the public schools will never get any better unless they are forced to work for your money.  They will just continue to be run by the unions, and everybody knows that in every industry they’ve been in, unions do great things for a while, but over time they become so burdened with high salaries, benefits, and underpreforming labor that they can’t function without going out of business.  Oh wait, they can raise your taxes!!  They don’t have to cost cut, they just have to come up with more and more excuses.
And if you think a county wide system won’t help, you better look down the road, don’t you think your best teachers are going to go to where the money is?  If Dallastown SD pays so much more, than why stay with us?  If they have better facilites, better programs, and a better tax base to take more from for the next big amazing program (that never shows a return), I think youwill lose them.

Yes, that’s exactly it.

See, the thing is, that money is never free, and nobody actually pays taxes other than individuals.  I’ve seen plenty of references here to the lucrative “industrial base” as a source of revenue.  Well, guess what?  Do you really think that once the moratorium is over, Home Depot will just ‘pay’ taxes out of it’s pocket and take a loss?  Of course not, they’re in the business of making money, and their tax bill is one of the expenses that they plan on covering when they set prices.  The consumer *always* pays the taxes (we just don’t see it printed on the receipt.)

Same thing goes for those complaining that renters don’t pay their fair share—of course they do!  If I were a landlord, you can bet I’d seek enough rent to cover my mortgate, plus some for taxes.

The only way to lighten the load is to lighten the expenditures—it’s mathematical certainty.

Looking to the state for mony is like taking money out of one pocket to fill the other (Actually it’s worse: ‘cause in order to do that, you have to pay all the bureaucrats throughout the system.) Of course, I expect that some will advocate change so that we can take money by force from people who live elsewhere, but that’s just not right.  If a society goes running to the government, giving it power to take from party A to give to party B, then that knife cuts both ways.  It won’t be long before party C comes looking to us, and wants to take money via excessive taxation also.

Again:  Lack of money is *not* the problem in the government schools.

pbion- I was just thinking about the business tax base at lunch.  And came to the same conclusion, besides the fact that we pay, because they budget for it, they also budget (plan) for their tax breaks.  Not that I think that it’s wrong, it’s just good business.  Key word here- business, if they didn’t have to, do you think they would?  Businesses have to answer to customers and investors, and that is how the school system should have to look at us.