Southern York County Life

I recently went to the Mason-Dixon Library to donate several texts.  I went to my car and brought them in (one of the two boxes).  I was informed that they do not accept technical books!  I placed them back in my car and left.  It was a friendly discussion.

They claimed that technical books go out of date too quickly and nobody wants them!  I know that the industry moves fast.  However, I am sure that people would check them out.  After all, My company sells over $25 million a year in these texts “Global Knowledge Press”.

The books I was providing to the library are current releases (Windows 2000 /2003 Resource Kits, Training Manauals- MCSE, CISCO Training Self Training Kits etc...).  Nothing over a year old.  The sell in the $60-70 range each.  They are perfect condition (VF+).

I am a Professional in the technical field.  I have used these texts to achieve my technical certifications MCSE -2000/2003 CCNA/CCNP, Security+ in the industry.  Several people, including myself, achieve certifications directly from training materials like these.  I author several of the training materials at my company.

These texts are well over $5,000 if purchased new.  I could sell them on ebay.  However, I wanted someone to be able to use them in our local town.  I wanted to upgrade our library.

I am shocked that they would turn them away.  At minimum, I think the library would take them and place them in the system for other libraries ( I know this is routinely done at other library systems).

I know other libraries that will glady take them.  I will be making my donations (both books and $$$) to other library systems.  I will make sure someone gets to use them! 

Sorry Stewartstown!  We are all a little diminished by the actions of the Library.

I guess it is not really my library since I only read technical books!

Craig Brown
Zort2001  

i am really disappointed to hear about the library being so particular as to turn down your donation. their selection of books of any kind has always been pitiful at best. now, they are building a new library. i wonder where the books will come from. if they turn down perfectly good donations, i think they will be hard-pressed to solicit monetary donations to buy books when the time comes.  

Just an Update.
The books that our library turned down, were donated to a library in Va.  They used them for the annual book drive sale.  I just got the receipt, They made $1621.32 from my donation! 

That is really sad for our library I think, considering all the hard work and hoops that have been jumped through to get the library approved at Bailey Springs, they should be doing all they can to make it the best it can be.  It’s really unfortunate they turned you down.

CD

I’d like to weigh in on this discussion; I am a library paraprofessional (not in York Co.) and in the field for a zillion years. I can’t speak for Mason-Dixon or its staff, but I hate to see them get bashed. First of all, I really don’t think that “we are all diminished” because the library did not take your donations. That’s rather dramatic. Secondly, textbooks are not accepted or purchased by ANY library except academic or corporate, specialized libraries. If you look at the York County library website, you will see that every library in the entire system, including the main library, would have declined your donations. Textbooks generally have new editions published every year (as you indicated in your email). They have to be catalogued by someone who has particular knowledge themselves, they take up a lot of room on the shelves, they have to be weeded for old editions. Having textbooks in your collection is a known time-user, and heaven knows these libraries are pressed for staff and time as it is. So it’s not that they don’t recognize the value of your atttempted donation. They are a great, small staff wearing many hats, and are providing the types of books that are demanded by readers in Stewartstown. If their selection is “pitiful” funding is the main reason. Contact the governor or Mike Waugh, but don’t use this forum to tear them down and ridicule the hard work done by the staff and board to get a new library. Thirdly, some libraries are able to work really hard at raising money through book sales. Some can’t. I know because our library does do this, and my supervisor spends probably 10-15 hours per week shipping books, updating lists, contacting dealers, etc. There is no way these ladies have the time or the years of bookselling experience he does. Evidently that library in VA had someone with the same expertise. Good for them, and thanks for making the donations somewhere despite your disgust with the nice ladies of our library.
I hope everyone who reads this thinks of the library in the future when you may have book donations, or when they are doing fund-raising. They do an important job and are always trying to serve the community and use their resources the best way they are able. Borough council members should know this!!! Shame on you guys.

Thank you countrygirl, I think your post was informative

After going back through the previous posts though, I can’t find anyone who showed “disgust for the nice ladies of the library” as you mentioned.  Most were simply commenting on the policy of not taking the donations and did not “tear down” or “ridicule the hard work of the staff” in the venture of the new library.  Many on this site have in fact been involved first-hand with making the new library a reality.

I would certainly think a poll of the council members, people on this site and most town residents would produce a positive view of the library staff and the service the library provides to our community. 

I also know that the library sets up tent at carnival time every year to sell books, so they do have an outlet for these donations.  I can understand not wanting to just take on more books that are not highly sought after though, as they would just take up more space.

Just my $.02.

CD

I would like to respond. I quote your statements through out and respond to each issue.

1) ?I can’t speak for Mason-Dixon or its staff, but I hate to see them get bashed.?

I did not bash any of the individuals.  I said nothing that can be construed as personal.  I was opening a discussion on ?my shock? about being turned away.

2) ?Secondly, textbooks are not accepted or purchased by ANY library except academic or corporate, specialized libraries.?

I am not sure where you got the idea that these are text books.  The books I was discussing were technical texts not text books.  I agree that textbooks are a significant problem for most libraries to handle.  The distinction is vitally important to the next section.

3) ?If you look at the York County library website, you will see that every library in the entire system, including the main library, would have declined your donations.?

This is simply not true!  A quick look at the online catalog (http://www.aclcp.org/) limiting the search to the York system yield the following:
Local Area Networks ? 254 Items
Computer Networks ? 712 Items
Electronic Data processing ? 201 Items

If you search for the term Microsoft, you will find many more texts. These texts include copies of the same texts that I was donating (One should note that most of these copies are based on 1996 through 1998 technologies).  The one difference was that I was providing updated copies (referencing the Microsoft Windows 2003 technologies, Cisco router technology, etc..).

4) ?They are a great, small staff wearing many hats, and are providing the types of books that are demanded by readers in Stewartstown.? 

How would we know the answer?  People do not request because they do not have the product! 

5) ?If their selection is “pitiful” funding is the main reason?.

Not necessarily true.  The selection might be ?pitiful? (your term not mine), exactly because they will not accept donations to improve the selection because of the content.

6) ?Good for them, and thanks for making the donations somewhere despite your disgust with the nice ladies of our library.?

Please re-read my original posting. I never used the term ?disgust?!  Nor did I make any personal attack.  I am sure they are nice ladies.  I did say, ?It was a friendly discussion.?

7) ?Thirdly, some libraries are able to work really hard at raising money through book sales. Some can’t. I know because our library does do this, and my supervisor spends probably 10-15 hours per week shipping books, updating lists, contacting dealers, etc. There is no way these ladies have the time or the years of bookselling experience he does. Evidently that library in VA had someone with the same expertise.?

Does the library have a ?book sale??  Many libraries collect donations and sell them for $1 a book to help raise funds.  A Buck a Book sale is very different then trying to actively market books through dealers. I understand this process.  I collect specific rare texts (advance reader copies, uncorrected proofs, first editions, signed, etc?) for several specific authors.

8) ?I hope everyone who reads this thinks of the library in the future when you may have book donations, or when they are doing fund-raising. They do an important job and are always trying to serve the community and use their resources the best way they are able.
Borough council members should know this!!! Shame on you guys.? 

None of the previous discussions are personal attacks.  Please do not try and make this a personal issue. Maybe this discussion can improve the library system.  Open discussion ?without personal attacks? can help resolve concerns that one might have.  Throughout your response you refer to the ?ladies? of the library system.  I am sure they are hard working and dedicated individuals. I wish them luck with the system. 

If they are willing to accept donations of technical texts, I would use my resources to help acquire update to date and current selections for the library!

Craig Brown
Zort2001

Anybody notice the message on the township sign on the way into town?  It states to Donate Used Books to Mason Dixon Library.  Given the recent thread I think it’s just too funny

CD

I’ll have to add my 2 cents..

The materials that was looking to be donated are not text books, but reference guides, tutorial types of books. These very books even if a version or 2 out of date would be useful to any citizen looking to learn more about computer, networks, software applications etc..

If the library has the computer lab, these books would be ideally placed next to the computers for reference materials.

- Jeff Bruening

Mr. Brown,

You cannot deny the intention in your original post was to inform the community that the library was not deserving of support - you even wrote “I will be making my donations (both books and $$$) to other library systems.” My intention was to defend the library’s practices before more people saw your post and assumed, as did at least 2 other people, that the library was indeed not deserving; see the rumblings above of “they will be hard-pressed to solicit monetary donations to buy books when the time comes”. How is that supportive of the library? Are you satisfied that your comments may result in less donations to M-D? I take your point that my language was a little too much, but contrary to your assertion, I believe you did write your original post to badmouth the library, and I didn’t appreciate it. You even titled your original post “Loss to the Community”! Did you think to contact Penn State York, or York College, or YTI, to see if the larger community was interested? College libraries accept donations also and it’s likely those books would have found a home in one of those spots. As far as them being textbooks or technical books, to a small public library they are basically the same. You have admitted here twice that they need updated at least once a year. Your offer to provide the updates was, I believe, not made to the librarian; that might have made a difference.

I’ll knot my end of this thread with the following: First, I did not call the M-D library’s book selection pitiful - another writer did. I was quoting him. Secondly, I did not look in the catalog to see what donations the York
County Library System accepts - I looked at their web page for their policy. Every library has a policy on donations. You cannot tell where a book comes from by looking at the catalog. And thirdly EVERY library knows what its patrons are asking for; it is a core measurement. Just some info from 26 years in libraries,

CountryGirl

First off I want to thank ‘Country Girl’ with her insightful post regarding our Library.
She made many fine points & it is worth repeating what a fine group of volunteers we have working for our community!
Yes, they do have rules on what they accept as donations for good reasons.  Past history & space are two major considerations.  They know better than any of us what works & sells for them & what doesn’t.  Also, if you had the opportunity to see their storage capabilities, you would realize how limited their storage really is.
Yes, the new library will provide a lot more space & books for the community.
Here’s an idea...if you have books that they don’t take as donations, why not sell them on EBay or other avenues & donate the proceeds to our Library!  This would be a win-win for everbody & a way to volunteer your time & effort to the Library.
As a parent to a Scout in Cub Scout Pack 156- Stewartstown, we look forward to helping out the Library with our June fundraiser.  We sponsor the ‘Used Book Sale’ & Scholastic Book Fair at the Eureka Fire Department.  It is an opportunity for the boys to give something back to their community.  100% of the proceeds from the Book Sale goes to the Library.
Last year the Scouts helped to raise over $300 in used books, over $400 in Scholastic merchandise & over 120 hard-back Scholastic Books were donated to the Library.
Don’t give up on our Library & I hope we can all re-think ways to donate our time, monies & effort to them.

Perhaps its a bit short sighetd for me to make such a comment, and I am certainly not taking sides. But a library is supposed to be a repository of books. Books that contain information. Not just on the current, but certainly the past. Webster defines library as:

Main Entry: li·brary
Pronunciation: ‘lI-"brer-E; British usually and US sometimes -br&r;-E; US sometimes -brE, ÷-"ber-E
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -brar·ies
Etymology: Middle English, from Medieval Latin librarium, from Latin, neuter of librarius of books, from libr-, liber inner bark, rind, book
1 a : a place in which literary, musical, artistic, or reference materials (as books, manuscripts, recordings, or films) are kept for use but not for sale b : a collection of such materials
2 a : a collection resembling or suggesting a library <a >

A library does not sell anything, or should not. Its a non for profit business. A library exists to share knowledge amongst the people. It does not matter how current or relevant the information is, it should be there. Martin Luther King is not current, nor is World War 2, or the Spanish Inquisition or the Russian Revolution or Madame Curry, but information on those topics is available there. I bet I could find information on Fortran or Cobol...extinct computer languages, but why not what was current yesterday? Who is to say that I cant learn about what was relevant or how to do something 2003 or 2002 style? Why is it up to the library to determine what I can or cant learn? To give an individual or group of individuals the power to decide what is available to learn is nothing more than censorship in its ugliest form. The total value and worth of a library should be the sum of the information contained within its walls. A selective library is not worth the mortar holding the bricks of its walls in place. Your statement MattsMom “They know better than any of us what works & sells for them & what doesn’t” is only proof of such sensorship. The library is trying to sell, not teach or share.

But then again, enjoy the libraries as they are, because their days are numbered. With every house that gains internet access, that is one less potential trip to the library.

Joe

Oh my. I said I wouldn’t participate in this thread anymore but… Joe, you are so off-base here. It amazes me how anyone who reads thinks they know what goes into running a library. Do you think you can practice medicine just because you know how to ask a doctor for Viagra? Librarians are PROFESSIONALS. Like doctors and lawyers and engineers. They often have multiple undergrad and grad degrees, in addition to their MLS. Now as to your other point, there are 2 very good reasons not to have every book ever written residing within every library: space and cost. No doctor can treat every disease or condition; some specialize, some take up small rural practices and cure what they can and send others to the specialists. Libraries are no different. What is not contained within the walls of Mason-Dixon Library is readily available a short drive away or through their loan process, in which a book you need is sent to your library within days, at a cost of pennies (or a little more). Full-text databases, with entire journal and magazine articles, downloadable e-books and many other wonders are at the library; you may not have access to this individually, but consortiums of libraries pool their funds to share databases and provide information to users. Even a large library system, such as Baltimore County or Los Angeles County, makes acquisitions decisions based on cost, space and need. This is not censorship!!! Librarians are the most liberal, nay, socialistic folk you will ever meet. Diversity, Recycling and Freedom of Information are their mantras. They would be appalled, individually and as a group, to hear you say such a thing. 

“A library does not sell anything, or should not.”
You are referring to booksales. Libraries do not hold booksales to make a profit. They do it to get rid of donations they cannot use and to raise funds to purchase books they can. Remember also, for some types of libraries there are accreditation agencies, which judge them on the relevance and usefullness of their collection to their patrons. Betcha didn’t know that. A collection full of Fortran books and 1984 endyclopedias would not serve the community, though knowledge is contained therein. Only by honing in on what is needed - with usage statistics, user surveys and the like - can librarians build a collection, based around a core of books that are necessary in almost every library, that is well-used by patrons.

“But then again, enjoy the libraries as they are, because their days are numbered. With every house that gains internet access, that is one less potential trip to the library.” - No, no no. Far from fearing the internet, libraries have embraced it, offered to teach it and rely on it frequently. The vision of a library as containing books and only books is, I’m afraid, a thing of the past. Books are an irreplaceable medium, and will not disappear in our lifetime, Joe. Remember, Information comes in many forms and the library has them all!! But just not all the information in one library.

CountryGirl

CountryGirl - very nice. Thoughtful response. There is more than two sides to every story, and this is one of them. For starters, all doctors study and perhaps practice the same basic medicine courses before they specialize. Every doctor is a general practicitioner before they chose a field. Not sure if librarians can make the same clain. Regardless, I am really not against the librarians. They have an important role as well. I am not however in favor of material being turned down for paltry reasons.

Space...I have heard that so many times as an excuse. With todays technology, there is no excuse. A libriarian could easily fit The Great Gatsby, The Grapes or Wrath, War and Peace, The Catcher in the Rye and all the Harry Potter books on one CD, put that on the shelf and take up about a quarter inch of horizontal space. The hard copies would be measured in feet. A 30 foot long by 8 foot high row of books could be placed on CDs or DVDs that fill a shoe box. Perhaps the library does not have the funds, nor the desire to do something like that, but the problem comes from how do they recover revenue from such a system. Putting a single book on a CD defeats the purpose of saving space. Thats not for me to decide. It can easily be done. I know, I have been part of something like that. I work at a hospital, and a room about the size of Walmart in Shrewsbury filled with patient records was converted into electronic format, and that computer takes the floor space of an SUV. Storing information in this day should never be a space issue...unless you are out of disk space.

If a librian chooses to turn down material, I guess that is with good intention...but I would whole heartedly hope that they would reconsider. Information is knowledge and power. And its us, the people that seek that knowledge. Would be a shame if I had to go elsewhere to get material ‘loaned’ - it takes money out of the Mason Dixon libraries coffer.

CountryGirl, I appreciate the response. Again, you made good points, and I will rethink some of what I said. Unofrtunately, I have not visited any library since I have had internet service. The same information is available free if you have the patience and desire to find it versus the library, wondering if the book you need has been loaned, or not even there.

Joe