Southern York County Life

Marge - 14 July 2008 11:33 PM

frogdog - 14 July 2008 08:42 PM

I sometimes wonder about what these groups end goal is.

The Mission of the South Eastern Tax Reform Coalition is to ensure fiscal responsibility and strong accountability by the South Eastern District School Board, by monitoring the budget and expenditures of the South Eastern School District and to take steps to ensure school-spending is directed to the education of our children, not squandered frivolously.

You can read more at http://www.setrc.net Our vision and goals are listed under the “Our Purpose” tab.

Exactly.  From the SETRC’s last posting regarding their presentation on the Buildings & Grounds issues, the school board once again turned their cheeks to suggestions that were made for the good of the students and the good of the district.  So not all decisions made by the school board are for the good of the students as frogdog would have you believe.  (Just one recent example that popped into my mind while reading this.)

I was thinking this raise issue over again and wanted to throw out this comparison when it comes to all the talk about we will only get and retain the best teachers if they are paid more.  Isn’t that just like saying, if we had a paid fire dept, we would have better firefighters?

BevyJean - 15 July 2008 08:38 AM

I was thinking this raise issue over again and wanted to throw out this comparison when it comes to all the talk about we will only get and retain the best teachers if they are paid more.  Isn’t that just like saying, if we had a paid fire dept, we would have better firefighters?

Good Point!!  I’d KNOW our volunteer firefighters and EMS service is excellent - probably more so because they do it for the love of it and not the money.

But that is a different passion of mine.  Anyway… what we pay the people to educate our children can’t be open ended like.... oh.... paying our sports teams… these people are the important ones.  They play and make other people money… the owners of the team, the owners of the stadiums, the owners of the TV networks—that’s what makes them so very important.  Unfortunately, when we pay teachers they don’t make anyone money… they just educate children.  That is what is wrong with our society as a whole.  We are not the only district in the state or America to have these issues.

Ahhh, the evils of the world, can we fix it on this blog? No… but it sure is fun to voice our opinions!!

Students First is in the same uphilll battle the tax coalition is in.  We have presented information to the school board almost a year ago about our concern over high resignations and the affect the instability will have in the future and they turned a deaf ear to us.  We had board members attend our meetings - Mr. Wilson attended at least two along with one meeting where 4 board members and Dr. Shank attended.  At this meeting we discussed working with the board to create anononymous surveys to SESD staff in an effort to determine if there was any truth to the feelings of “intimidation and fear, hostile working environment” that the majority of the 33 exit interviews stated.  They were agreeable and we set up another meeting to work together on this and then they sent us a letter denying all of it.  We gathered statistics from the Department of Education and presented them showing our resignation in one year as not only highest in the county since year 2000, but higest in the history of SESD.  School administrators and teachers at York City made the comment “SESD is making us look good”.  We continued to show facts and statistics pointing to the difficulty for SESD to attract and retain teachers over the year.  We consistently offered our time to volunteer and help in any way possible in an effort to curb this weak area.  Mr. Wilson simply stated at the personnel meeting that he knew 3 years ago we would have high resignations.  If that is true, why on earth wouldn’t the board and district have put a retention plan into effect before now.  Frogdog I know that teacher you are referring to.  She had one of my children in class and is a high quality teacher.  These teachers leaving are why SF is so passionate.  I apologize if we have offended some community members along the way, but this is a topic that we feel is worth taking a stand for. 

Teachers can be sure of one thing in their chosen profession.  That is parent complaints.  If you are a good or a bad teacher you will surely get some of these.  Yes, complaints can wear you down but the difference in school districts is how the administration handles them.  Do they support their teachers and effectively communicate with the parents and teachers concerning their complaints?  When a teacher feels supported and empowered by their administration they are much more likely to do fun activities, outside the box like this teacher who left the district is known to do. 

It upsets me every time I see another resignation on the agenda because I know the positive impact these professionals have had on so many students.  These teachers are investments and we need to improve our retention of these valuable investments.  JPC your retention ideas are some that have been found in our research.  This is longer than I intended - just wanted to say that when you feel like you are not being heard you sometimes become louder and as a member of SF I apologize if this has been offensive to some of you.

frogdog - 15 July 2008 08:50 AM

But that is a different passion of mine.  Anyway… what we pay the people to educate our children can’t be open ended like.... oh.... paying our sports teams… these people are the important ones.  They play and make other people money… the owners of the team, the owners of the stadiums, the owners of the TV networks—that’s what makes them so very important.  Unfortunately, when we pay teachers they don’t make anyone money… they just educate children.  That is what is wrong with our society as a whole.  We are not the only district in the state or America to have these issues.

Right, and that lack of competition is what makes socialized education ( and soon to be healthcare ) such a problem.  We, as taxpayers are consumers in a way.  Not only are we interested in education at an individual level, but we need to have a well-educated society.  Where’s the choice for us, once the tax bill is paid?  There’s not one.

That’s why I think vouchers are such a good idea.  They preserve the concept of an education for everyone with the cost shared by all, *but* there’s enough competition in there to make sure that the schools and staff do their best in order to keep their jobs.

Would the teachers’ unions support this effort to compete in order to hone their services for maximum value?  Don’t think so…

I think vouchers are a great idea - parents should have a choice as to who educates their child.

You know I agree that the only way to make schools better is through competition.  It’s the one thing that the big bad union is scared of it.  This is what Students First should get behind, it would definitely put students first!

Parents do have a choice - homeschool, cyber or charter schools - public or private education.  As a new thread on here, someone asked about cyber schools at no cost to the parents?  I guess they don’t know where their taxes go.  Are any of these choices perfect - no = nothing ever will be.

I still believe that SESD is moving in the right direction.  Why did Mr. Wilson think there was going to be a high resignation 3 years ago?  Probably because the district was moving forward with “out with the old in with the new.” Not everyone is comfortable when they are taken out of their comfort zone.  Change is always hard.

School competiton wont work in the bigger context.  While a voucher would allow you to take your kids to the ‘best’ schools, there would be an enormous rift between ‘best’ and ‘worst’.  The schools that werent the best would quickly become the worst.  Social economic conditions will easily prevent some students and districts from performing at the high level to be competetive.  The best students will leave, and take thier money with them. A school district that was already at risk and struggling will quickly become worse for it.

JustPlainC - 15 July 2008 12:54 PM

School competiton wont work in the bigger context.  While a voucher would allow you to take your kids to the ‘best’ schools, there would be an enormous rift between ‘best’ and ‘worst’.  The schools that werent the best would quickly become the worst.  Social economic conditions will easily prevent some students and districts from performing at the high level to be competetive.  The best students will leave, and take thier money with them. A school district that was already at risk and struggling will quickly become worse for it.

BS, that has not happened, that’s just kool aid.  The bad and struggling schools get better, because if they don’t, they close.  Vouchers are used in some places, you show me where this has happened.  It has worked incredibly around the world, especially in all the countries that are now leaps ahead of us in education..... while we stay mediocre, they move forward.  Public schools were made to help poor inner city children, and that is where the system has failed the most, all of us can afford to educate our own kids, it’s time to get rid of public education.

frogdog - 15 July 2008 12:30 PM

Parents do have a choice - homeschool, cyber or charter schools - public or private education.  As a new thread on here, someone asked about cyber schools at no cost to the parents?  I guess they don’t know where their taxes go.  Are any of these choices perfect - no = nothing ever will be.

I still believe that SESD is moving in the right direction.  Why did Mr. Wilson think there was going to be a high resignation 3 years ago?  Probably because the district was moving forward with “out with the old in with the new.” Not everyone is comfortable when they are taken out of their comfort zone.  Change is always hard.

It is not only the old getting out - many who are new are leaving too. 

Public school systems are not the problem - the problem is how they are funded.

BS, that has not happened, that’s just kool aid.

It hasnt?  It has been happening for generations, just not in a formal manner.  People have long included schools as part of thier selection criteria when deciding where to live.  The only difference with vouchers is that a family wouldnt have to move in order to take thier property tax money and go elsewhere.

I was referring to schools getting worse because of vouchers, not people leaving.  Of course people will leave if they have a choice, unless the school gets up to par with those which they would lose students to.

mamma - 15 July 2008 02:59 PM

frogdog - 15 July 2008 12:30 PM

Parents do have a choice - homeschool, cyber or charter schools - public or private education.  As a new thread on here, someone asked about cyber schools at no cost to the parents?  I guess they don’t know where their taxes go.  Are any of these choices perfect - no = nothing ever will be.

I still believe that SESD is moving in the right direction.  Why did Mr. Wilson think there was going to be a high resignation 3 years ago?  Probably because the district was moving forward with “out with the old in with the new.” Not everyone is comfortable when they are taken out of their comfort zone.  Change is always hard.

It is not only the old getting out - many who are new are leaving too. 

Public school systems are not the problem - the problem is how they are funded.

So change the funding, push for a voucher system.

pboin - 15 July 2008 11:17 AM

frogdog - 15 July 2008 08:50 AM

But that is a different passion of mine.  Anyway… what we pay the people to educate our children can’t be open ended like.... oh.... paying our sports teams… these people are the important ones.  They play and make other people money… the owners of the team, the owners of the stadiums, the owners of the TV networks—that’s what makes them so very important.  Unfortunately, when we pay teachers they don’t make anyone money… they just educate children.  That is what is wrong with our society as a whole.  We are not the only district in the state or America to have these issues.

Right, and that lack of competition is what makes socialized education ( and soon to be healthcare ) such a problem.  We, as taxpayers are consumers in a way.  Not only are we interested in education at an individual level, but we need to have a well-educated society.  Where’s the choice for us, once the tax bill is paid?  There’s not one.

That’s why I think vouchers are such a good idea.  They preserve the concept of an education for everyone with the cost shared by all, *but* there’s enough competition in there to make sure that the schools and staff do their best in order to keep their jobs.

Would the teachers’ unions support this effort to compete in order to hone their services for maximum value?  Don’t think so…

Amen to that!  I don’t have children in school, but I think that vouchers are a great idea.  Give parents some say in where the kids attend school.