A question for all of my SESD forum friends to ponder. What will your reaction be when our school taxes go up by 25%-30% next year to cover the shortfall in the state pension fund? Rendell is also talking about raising the state income tax “temporarily” to cover the budget shortfall. He is out this year, so he doesn’t care about raising taxes. To be honest, I am scared.
There are many groups around the State who are working hard to get Sam Rohrer elected as PA governor. (http://www.samrohrer.org) If elected governor, one of Rohrer’s top 5 goals is the elimination of school property taxes. SETRC has petitions we need to get signed to get Sam Rohrer’s name on the primary election ballot. The signed petitions must be returned to Sam’s campaign headquarters by March 1st, so we don’t have much time. Only registered Republicans can sign the petition.
Many of us had written to the State and County Republican Committee members requesting that they not endorse any candidate before the primary, but rather, let the voters decide. However, as you may have heard, the Committee endorsed Tom Corbett for governor. Due to this endorsement, Corbett gets the man-power and resources of the Committee to help with his campaign.
In addition, the PA GOP website has removed the names of all Republican candidates for statewide office except for the endorsed candidates, giving the appearance that the anointed ones are the only candidates in the race. This kind of arrogance that stifles political choice MUST end by teaching the GOP bosses that we will not be corralled into voting only for those approved by the party kingmakers. Vote against ANY GOP-endorsed candidate on May 18. Please spread the word about this usurpation of the electoral process.
SETRC will have the petitions available at our public meeting:
DATE: Tuesday, February 23, 2010
TIME: 7:00 - 9:00 PM
PLACE: Fawn Grove VFW Hall (behind the Community Center)
If you cannot attend the following meeting, please try to stop by and at least sign the petition.
Your post was well thought out and has all of the best intentions I am sure, but I just laughed when I read this line. If they keep taxing us like this (be it a piano or a stadium or any other non-essential spending) I will not be able to buy chicken soup. :0
Thank you Mark for your kind comment.
.....and to top it off those chowderheads in Harrisburg want to tax anyone in a municipality that does not have a municipal police force $158 a head in tax to “help” pay for State Police coverage for their areas. I thought we already paid that tax, but I am digressing from the original thread.
There has been talk about this for years during the current governor’s terms in office. I am totally opposed to implementing a tax on any municipality that has to rely on state police for law enforcement coverage.
No Mark, residents do not already pay that tax.
I think you might have missed the welcome sign on the Mason Dixon line which says “Welcome to Pennsylvania, The Land of Taxes!”
That was quite a dissertation and it was informative! There was a lot of information to try to get my arms around, but I just picked out a couple of things to chat about.
Again, thank you Mark. I’m glad you found my post informative. I’m sorry if the information was a bit overwhelming.
1. You mentioned that, ”Our school district has been going through “growing pains” for the last three decades. “Growing pains” meaning increase of population. With an increase of population in a community along comes increase in crime, increase in services provided by local volunteer fire and ambulance companies, increase of pupils in a school district and a general overall increase in numerous things. “ The area has shown growth, but over the last 11 years the school population has remained stagnant (right around 3,000 students) while the budget has gone from $17 million to I am not sure this year, but my guess would be near $48 million. Why?
Many newcomers to the area are elderly who moved here for several reasons—(1)To be closer to their children and grandchildren; (2)To avoid having their pensions taxed as is customary in Maryland; (3) To avoid high property taxes like they had in Maryland, etc.
That is a very valid question which I suggested be presented to the school board directors at the next school board meeting. Hopefully they will be able to provide an answer to your valid question.
I strongly suggest that residents take a look at the bonds floated by the school district. Follow the bond money folks. There you will find a lot of answers and other shocking information.
Please keep in mind that every school board has a “bird dog.”
2. I personally have voted in every election since I have lived here. Voting in a new Representative for Saylor or a new Senator for Waugh would be the equivilent of emptying the ocean with a thimble. They both have lobbied for changes in the school funding formula and submitted legislation to change the way we are taxed for schools. They are only 2 people in the big ole’ state legislature. I can’t vote anyone else from other districts out.
Thank you Mark for participating in the election process.
I agree with you that ousting State Senator Mike Waugh and State Representative Stan Saylor will not improve the situation. They both are little fishes in an ocean and are out numbered. Yes, they both have lobbied for changes in the school funding formula, etc.
The school funding formula was changed by the late governor Bob Casey which goes back a couple of decades ago.
State Senator Mike Waugh and State Representative Stan Saylor are only 2 state legislators who do consult with other state legislators in our county and work as a team. Even with all the state legislators in our county, they are still out numbered by larger voting precincts, i.e. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia voters determine who is elected to a state wide office, not the voters in our county or other smaller counties in the Commonwealth.
The current Pennsylvania Public School Code is out dated and ancient. It needs to be rewritten completely. And no, I don’t want PSBA or NEA doing it! I would prefer EPLC do it which is a non political organization that was founded by the well known Heinz family from Pittsburgh area.
Now there was a great U.S. Senator, the late John Heinz! Sure he came from a wealthy family but he was a very down to earth person who I had the privilege of meeting decades ago. He never looked down upon any employees in the Heinz Company. He never behaved towards any of his employees as though he were better than them. He took the time to learn every employee’s name including the employee who ran the elevator at the company.
I visited his office in Pittsburgh back in 1984 or 1985 when a group of residents formed an organization called H.O.P.E. a/k/a Humans Opposed to a Polluted Environment and brought to the attention of community residents a county landfill located on Plank Road that was responsible for contaminating adjacent homeowner’s private wells, the wells of an adjacent trailer park court and a local business. I personally delivered letters from residents in this community expressing their concerns about the county landfill and the pollution of their private wells. Senator Heinz had that landfill placed on the Super Fund list. Granted, it wasn’t in the top 10, but it was on the list!
Before he was killed in a tragic accident I was working on trying to get Senator Heinz to look at the many farms in this area to grow crops for the Heinz Company and to bring a plant into York County which would have provided hundreds if not thousands of factory jobs to the residents in this county. Unfortunately that never took place because of his untimely death. Few people are aware of the fact that prior to his tragic accident; he was going to announce his intentions to run for president of the United States of America. He would have made an excellent President!
Previous State Representative Greg Snyder attended a public meeting at my request. The then county commissioner board also attended that public meeting. I also contacted Mary Minor who resided in Adams County who along with her husband were poisoned by a county landfill there. I also contacted someone who requested their personal attorney from Maryland attend that public meeting. Mary Minor and the attorney were verbally attacked by residents in this area. One county commissioner had the audacity to tell the people in attendance “what are you worried about, you don’t have to drink the water from your well.” A neighbor of mine attended this public meeting and was expecting her first child. She went to drink from the water fountain and hesitated asking me if the water coming from the public water fountain was safe to drink. I told her she didn’t have to drink the water and to remember what the county commissioner said. I told her to go suck an orange and she burst into laughter.
3. I have said this many times on this forum, but what we need is a change in the way our school district is administered. We need a corporate structure with an accountable paid CEO and CFO with an elected board that can handle a $50 million dollar budget. God bless our board, but I think that once they get into office they probably say why in the hell did I do this! They have a hard enough time maintaining the status quo much less implementing fiscal change. I also believe that Dr. Shank should not be concerned with budgets, she should be concerned with curriculum, personnel and student activities. She seems like a good superintendent, but I am sure that she is overwhelmed too.
The accountable CEO/CFO you refer to is the current business office administrator. We had an excellent business office administrator several years ago who retired. When that business office administrator was awarded a hefty pay raise there was public outcry from newcomers to the area. What the newcomers did not understand is that business office administrator did an outstanding job carrying out their responsibilities. That business office administrator had worked for the school district for approximately 50 years! They retired because a family member’s health began to deteriorate.
It is part of Dr. Shank’s job responsibility to overlook budgets as well as overseeing curriculum, personnel and student activities.
Few residents are aware of the fact that the majority of every school district’s budget goes towards administrative costs not towards the actual cost of educating a student.
Newcomers to the area have placed great demands on Dr. Shank and her predecessors. They demanded things their previous school district in Maryland or whatever other state they moved from had provided to students. Many of the things they demanded they didn’t even have in their previous school district in Maryland or whatever other state they moved from.
All these demands cost money and it is the taxpayers who have to foot the tab for these demands.
Our school district does not have a lot of businesses or factories that would provide a great source of tax revenue.
There used to be a lot of Ma & Pa businesses in this area. There was a time when a person never had to leave Stewartstown to go buy anything. Stewartstown used to have its own 5&10;store, furniture company, cigar factory, etc. When we moved here there were very few Ma & Pa businesses in this area. The few that were here, we patronized. The majority of newcomers to the area seldom patronized the Ma & Pa businesses in the area.
IMHO, I don’t think most residents would complain paying school taxes if all the money was going towards the education of a student instead of administration costs.
IMHO, paid school vouchers are not the solution to the problem as many taxpayers believe. Accepting school vouchers will not reduce school taxes like many taxpayers seem to think. School vouchers will not decrease the total number of teachers in a school district. If anything school vouchers could produce higher school taxes. The classrooms might be reduced, but teachers will still be needed to teach students. The end result will be teachers having smaller group of students to educate.
4. Lastly, and probably least importantly I am not sure about your assessment of Mr. Wilson. My 2 encounters with him have been anything but positive, and he was the President of the board on both occasions. I found him to be condescending and arrogant. My opinion of him was that he only wanted to hold his position to maintain his ego.
I’ve known Mr. Wilson for almost 30 years. Yes, he served as president and vice president of the school board. I tend to disagree with your opinion that he is condescending and arrogant. I’ve had communications with Mr. Wilson both as a customer at his business and as a school board director. Some residents are of the belief he is condescending and arrogant when what he really is, is blunt. The reason for his bluntness is because he did not want to be mealy mouthed or misunderstood by residents. Mr. Wilson and I share the same morals, values, beliefs, etc. That is how the two of us became acquainted. We respected each other’s opinion even when there were times we may not have agreed with each other on an issue. You might say we agreed to disagree.
I really think that you have valid points in many areas. I am just not sure there is anything that the collective “we” can do to change the way that business is done. I have had conversations with at least 3 of my neighbors and we all believe that at the current rate of tax increases and the big ones that are coming to fix the pension mess, we have about 5 to 7 years at the most before we will have to make a decision about selling because the tax burden will be too overwhelming. For those that don’t like it when I or others b!tch about a piano, sports field or raises for teachers it is not because I don’t want the best for your kids (I have no kids), but I do believe that there is a point when my duty as a citizen to pay reaches a limit and something has to give. It might be a bunch of us selling our houses, but until that time I will continue to make my feelings known.
Again, I thank you for your kind words Mark.
I totally sympathize with your neighbors and you on having to make a major decision in 5 to 7 years because the projected tax increase will be overwhelming. The projected tax increase will be overwhelming to all homeowners in the school district that I fear Crossroads, Delta, Fawn Grove and Stewartstown may end up becoming ”ghost” towns.
That was quite a dissertation and it was informative! There was a lot of information to try to get my arms around, but I just picked out a couple of things to chat about.
1. You mentioned that, ”Our school district has been going through “growing pains” for the last three decades. “Growing pains” meaning increase of population. With an increase of population in a community along comes increase in crime, increase in services provided by local volunteer fire and ambulance companies, increase of pupils in a school district and a general overall increase in numerous things. “ The area has shown growth, but over the last 11 years the school population has remained stagnant (right around 3,000 students) while the budget has gone from $17 million to I am not sure this year, but my guess would be near $48 million. Why?
2. I personally have voted in every election since I have lived here. Voting in a new Representative for Saylor or a new Senator for Waugh would be the equivilent of emptying the ocean with a thimble. They both have lobbied for changes in the school funding formula and submitted legislation to change the way we are taxed for schools. They are only 2 people in the big ole’ state legislature. I can’t vote anyone else from other districts out.
3. I have said this many times on this forum, but what we need is a change in the way our school district is administered. We need a corporate structure with an accountable paid CEO and CFO with an elected board that can handle a $50 million dollar budget. God bless our board, but I think that once they get into office they probably say why in the hell did I do this! They have a hard enough time maintaining the status quo much less implementing fiscal change. I also believe that Dr. Shank should not be concerned with budgets, she should be concerned with curriculum, personnel and student activities. She seems like a good superintendent, but I am sure that she is overwhelmed too.
4. Lastly, and probably least importantly I am not sure about your assessment of Mr. Wilson. My 2 encounters with him have been anything but positive, and he was the President of the board on both occasions. I found him to be condescending and arrogant. My opinion of him was that he only wanted to hold his position to maintain his ego.
I really think that you have valid points in many areas. I am just not sure there is anything that the collective “we” can do to change the way that business is done. I have had conversations with at least 3 of my neighbors and we all believe that at the current rate of tax increases and the big ones that are coming to fix the pension mess, we have about 5 to 7 years at the most before we will have to make a decision about selling because the tax burden will be too overwhelming. For those that don’t like it when I or others b!tch about a piano, sports field or raises for teachers it is not because I don’t want the best for your kids (I have no kids), but I do believe that there is a point when my duty as a citizen to pay reaches a limit and something has to give. It might be a bunch of us selling our houses, but until that time I will continue to make my feelings known.
A question for all of my SESD forum friends to ponder. What will your reaction be when our school taxes go up by 25%-30% next year to cover the shortfall in the state pension fund? Rendell is also talking about raising the state income tax “temporarily” to cover the budget shortfall. He is out this year, so he doesn’t care about raising taxes. To be honest, I am scared.
You nailed it! I agree with all of your points 110%...especially #4!
I just got an email from Arlen Specter bragging about what a great job the stimulus has done for Pennsylvania one year later! It was great news that should make us all stand up and pay attention. His email directed me to the state site for monitoring stimulus spending in PA: http://www.recovery.pa.gov
The good news it that the SESD is set to get $1,798,339 in stimulus money (which since I am in such a cynical mood I am sure will lead to a direct reduction in my school taxes)! For 3100 students that is about $580 per student! While I was looking around at the site, I just happened to run the numbers for the Philadelphia School District. They have about 180,000 students and received $331,173,437 or $1840 per student. I am sure that Pittsburgh is about the same, so I won’t even look.
With all of these goodies coming our way I am going to have a really tough time deciding who to vote for in the election this year!
For the record, I would prefer that there was no stimulus in the first place!
Ha, ha, ha, I’m really amused by your rudeness and ignorance.
Oh I doubt that VERY much. But if it amuses you that much I will try to be more accomodating. See, I post a simple flyer that could maybe be used to help a long standing issue, regardless of what side anybody is on with it and end up with 32 pages of the life of JH (which I did not read btw, I have things to do, lol)
I just got an email from Arlen Specter bragging about what a great job the stimulus has done for Pennsylvania one year later! It was great news that should make us all stand up and pay attention. His email directed me to the state site for monitoring stimulus spending in PA: http://www.recovery.pa.gov
The good news it that the SESD is set to get $1,798,339 in stimulus money (which since I am in such a cynical mood I am sure will lead to a direct reduction in my school taxes)! For 3100 students that is about $580 per student! While I was looking around at the site, I just happened to run the numbers for the Philadelphia School District. They have about 180,000 students and received $331,173,437 or $1840 per student. I am sure that Pittsburgh is about the same, so I won’t even look.
With all of these goodies coming our way I am going to have a really tough time deciding who to vote for in the election this year!
For the record, I would prefer that there was no stimulus in the first place!
Mark...There was an article in the YDR regarding a huge discrepancy between what the State and the federal governments show for stimulus school funding, (http://www.ydr.com/ci_13884943?IADID=Search-www.ydr.com-www.ydr.com) so I asked at an SESD Finance Committee meeting about the amount and its use. I was advised the money can be used only for new programs for Title 1 and Special Ed. SESD will receive, over 2 years, $123K for Title 1 (disadvantaged students) and $600K+ for Special Ed.
I just got an email from Arlen Specter bragging about what a great job the stimulus has done for Pennsylvania one year later! It was great news that should make us all stand up and pay attention. His email directed me to the state site for monitoring stimulus spending in PA: http://www.recovery.pa.gov
The good news it that the SESD is set to get $1,798,339 in stimulus money (which since I am in such a cynical mood I am sure will lead to a direct reduction in my school taxes)! For 3100 students that is about $580 per student! While I was looking around at the site, I just happened to run the numbers for the Philadelphia School District. They have about 180,000 students and received $331,173,437 or $1840 per student. I am sure that Pittsburgh is about the same, so I won’t even look.
With all of these goodies coming our way I am going to have a really tough time deciding who to vote for in the election this year!
For the record, I would prefer that there was no stimulus in the first place!
Mark...There was an article in the YDR regarding a huge discrepancy between what the State and the federal governments show for stimulus school funding, (http://www.ydr.com/ci_13884943?IADID=Search-www.ydr.com-www.ydr.com) so I asked at an SESD Finance Committee meeting about the amount and its use. I was advised the money can be used only for new programs for Title 1 and Special Ed. SESD will receive, over 2 years, $123K for Title 1 (disadvantaged students) and $600K+ for Special Ed.
Here is the breakdown from the site. The Special Ed number seems to be in line, but I am not sure about the rest:
South Eastern SD
County York
Estimated Total Funding Amount
$1,798,339
Special Education Funding
$611,679.00
Funding targeted to Low Income Students
$168,542.00
State Fiscal Stabilization Funding for Basic Education Funding
$722,981.00
State Fiscal Stabilization Funding for Basic Education Funding Increase
$295,137.00
I just got an email from Arlen Specter bragging about what a great job the stimulus has done for Pennsylvania one year later! It was great news that should make us all stand up and pay attention. His email directed me to the state site for monitoring stimulus spending in PA: http://www.recovery.pa.gov
The good news it that the SESD is set to get $1,798,339 in stimulus money (which since I am in such a cynical mood I am sure will lead to a direct reduction in my school taxes)! For 3100 students that is about $580 per student! While I was looking around at the site, I just happened to run the numbers for the Philadelphia School District. They have about 180,000 students and received $331,173,437 or $1840 per student. I am sure that Pittsburgh is about the same, so I won’t even look.
With all of these goodies coming our way I am going to have a really tough time deciding who to vote for in the election this year!
For the record, I would prefer that there was no stimulus in the first place!
Mark...There was an article in the YDR regarding a huge discrepancy between what the State and the federal governments show for stimulus school funding, (http://www.ydr.com/ci_13884943?IADID=Search-www.ydr.com-www.ydr.com) so I asked at an SESD Finance Committee meeting about the amount and its use. I was advised the money can be used only for new programs for Title 1 and Special Ed. SESD will receive, over 2 years, $123K for Title 1 (disadvantaged students) and $600K+ for Special Ed.
Here is the breakdown from the site. The Special Ed number seems to be in line, but I am not sure about the rest:
South Eastern SD
County York
Estimated Total Funding Amount
$1,798,339
Special Education Funding
$611,679.00
Funding targeted to Low Income Students
$168,542.00
State Fiscal Stabilization Funding for Basic Education Funding
$722,981.00
State Fiscal Stabilization Funding for Basic Education Funding Increase
$295,137.00
I just checked the site http://www.recovery.pa.gov and the chart I saw “Estimated School District Allocations” differs from what you posted. No wonder no one knows what their getting:
Funding Targeted to Low-Income Students
$165,700
Educational Technology Funding
$5,300
Special Education Funding
$619,000
2009-10 State Basic Education Funding Formula Increase
$301,146
Fiscal Stabilization Grants
$145,500
Total Stimulus Funding
$1,236,646
I know exactly what we are going to get… the shaft. At the end of the day, that will be the end result. I am sure of it. This stimulus money is an absolute joke. It is a classic rob Peter to pay Paul routine. We will have to pay it back in the form of higher taxes down the road or cuts in services.
Leave the economy alone. Quit screwing with it in an effort to fix it. All these stimulus bills turn out to be is pork spending and special interest funding with very little benefit to the average American. Look at how much was wasted buying special road signs showing what the money was being wasted on…
We will never learn… no fiscal responsibility at all in this country. NONE.
Ha, ha, ha, I’m really amused by your rudeness and ignorance.
Oh I doubt that VERY much. But if it amuses you that much I will try to be more accomodating. See, I post a simple flyer that could maybe be used to help a long standing issue, regardless of what side anybody is on with it and end up with 32 pages of the life of JH (which I did not read btw, I have things to do, lol)
Oh come on now 89GTA, 32 pages! LOL Yeah right dude! Let me get out my waders it’s getting pretty deep now! If you didn’t read it, where did you come up with 32 pages supposedly of my life? If my post was comprehended the way it was supposed to be, it would be easy for anyone to see that I was merely attempting to educate newcomers to our community about how our school district was 30 years ago when I first moved here and the progress that has taken place over three decades! If you didn’t read it as you claim, how could you come up with the figure 32? LOL To claim there was 32 pages of text posted by me, one can only conclude that someone was using their cell phone, IPod, Blackberry, etc. rather than a computer monitor. That would be the only way I could perceive 32 pages of text appearing. If a computer monitor was used to view my post, not even a full page was used.
First of all I never saw your “flyer,” and I don’t seem to recall anyone else posting anything mentioning this “flyer.” I welcome you to please share the contents of the “flyer” with the rest of the community on “a long standing issue” which I have no knowledge as to what “long standing issue” is being referenced!
Ha, ha, ha, I’m really amused by your rudeness and ignorance.
Oh I doubt that VERY much. But if it amuses you that much I will try to be more accomodating. See, I post a simple flyer that could maybe be used to help a long standing issue, regardless of what side anybody is on with it and end up with 32 pages of the life of JH (which I did not read btw, I have things to do, lol)
Oh come on now 89GTA, 32 pages! LOL Yeah right dude! Let me get out my waders it’s getting pretty deep now! If you didn’t read it, where did you come up with 32 pages supposedly of my life? If my post was comprehended the way it was supposed to be, it would be easy for anyone to see that I was merely attempting to educate newcomers to our community about how our school district was 30 years ago when I first moved here and the progress that has taken place over three decades! If you didn’t read it as you claim, how could you come up with the figure 32? LOL To claim there was 32 pages of text posted by me, one can only conclude that someone was using their cell phone, IPod, Blackberry, etc. rather than a computer monitor. That would be the only way I could perceive 32 pages of text appearing. If a computer monitor was used to view my post, not even a full page was used.
First of all I never saw your “flyer,” and I don’t seem to recall anyone else posting anything mentioning this “flyer.” I welcome you to please share the contents of the “flyer” with the rest of the community on “a long standing issue” which I have no knowledge as to what “long standing issue” is being referenced!
At least I don’t hide behind an alias user name.
Have a nice day 89GTA!
JH, The Flyer was actually the first post in this thread talking about the pianos available from UoD. If anything a bunch of us (me included) are guilty of hijacking 89GTA’s thread (sorry 89) and going off on a tangent.
Ha, ha, ha, I’m really amused by your rudeness and ignorance.
Oh I doubt that VERY much. But if it amuses you that much I will try to be more accomodating. See, I post a simple flyer that could maybe be used to help a long standing issue, regardless of what side anybody is on with it and end up with 32 pages of the life of JH (which I did not read btw, I have things to do, lol)
Oh come on now 89GTA, 32 pages! LOL Yeah right dude! Let me get out my waders it’s getting pretty deep now! If you didn’t read it, where did you come up with 32 pages supposedly of my life? If my post was comprehended the way it was supposed to be, it would be easy for anyone to see that I was merely attempting to educate newcomers to our community about how our school district was 30 years ago when I first moved here and the progress that has taken place over three decades! If you didn’t read it as you claim, how could you come up with the figure 32? LOL To claim there was 32 pages of text posted by me, one can only conclude that someone was using their cell phone, IPod, Blackberry, etc. rather than a computer monitor. That would be the only way I could perceive 32 pages of text appearing. If a computer monitor was used to view my post, not even a full page was used.
First of all I never saw your “flyer,” and I don’t seem to recall anyone else posting anything mentioning this “flyer.” I welcome you to please share the contents of the “flyer” with the rest of the community on “a long standing issue” which I have no knowledge as to what “long standing issue” is being referenced!
At least I don’t hide behind an alias user name.
Have a nice day 89GTA!
The number “32 pages” was just making a point, which you obviously missed.
The flyer was in the very first post of the thread, which you obviously missed.
The long standing issue is the piano, which is in the thread title, which you obviously missed.
...and this “alias” thing still really bothers you doesn’t it? Maybe I should be the one concerned that I have someone so hell bent on finding out who I am that they have to drive around the community and ask questions about who is disagreeing with them on the intarweb...pathetic.
... 
