Barnyard....I worked for a very unionized company.  I was in management, so the union contract had no effect on me, however, with each new contract negotiation, changes were made to the benefits for our union members.  At one time, years ago, the company paid all the premiums for health insurance.  Over time, all employees picked up a portion of the premiums, both management and non-management (union members).  Everyone still has good health benefits, but everyone pays a portion.  Union pensions are covered by the contracts, but the company recently announced it will no longer pay into management pensions as of July 1, 2006.  I, fortunately, took an offer the company made a few years ago, so my pension is in tact.  I feel with this announcement though, the company will be trying to negotiate changes to the union pension plan with the next contract negotiations.

I’m not suggesting cuts in the teachers’ benefits, but rather have them pay a larger portion of their health premiums and be more creative in the pension plan.  As I mentioned, many businesses have done away with traditional pension plans and gone to Cash Balance Plans, 401K’s, etc.

Unrelated to the schools, look what is happening to the unionized jobs, like Ford and GM, because of the high wages and benefits, they are no longer able to compete with the global companies who are not unionized, and are closing plants and laying off.  Don’t get me wrong.  I am not against unions, I started out as a union employee.  It’s just a reality now-a-days.

I don’t have the answer to the school tax problem, either, but I do feel there is a lot of waste and there are areas where expenses can be reduced.

Marge - 22 February 2006 02:49 PM

You are so right. Look at what has happened at GM, Sparrows Point, Bethlehem Steel ......... Southeastern School District????
Sure, changes to Teacher’s benefits can be made, but they take time to do, sometimes years. Do we have that kind of time before some unfortunate people start to lose their homes or are forced to sell because of taxes? I believe we have similar thoughts on this, and have come to the conclusion there just aren’t any easy, instant answers. I’m still not convinced that regionalization or county wide school systems will fix the problem, but since I can’t offer a viable alternative to the problem, I am willing to listen to the proponents as they offer their arguments. Unfunded government mandates and contractual issues seem to be the big problem with the schools. Fixing those will fix a host of other problems. Now, who has the answer to that problem??????

People keep using the term “Unfunded government mandates”.  What are we talking about?
Are these issues that the school would be doing anyway?  Are these things that we would not do?
I am not saying they don’t exist.  I am just trying to find what this “catch all” statement is noting.

More discussion will help hammer out a solution.

Just a couple of observations...........  I had a discussion with someone in the Dallastown School District said the superintendent’s solution to the overcrowding of schools is to have the townships stop approving more housing developments.  This would be great except that state law does not allow townships that authority.  Also, Dallastown expanded their high/middle school about 6 or 7 years ago and is now out of space again, with no space left to expand into.  Southern also does not have space left for future expansions, which means that at some time in the future, both school districts are going to need to build new schools - so it is not just in SESD that these problems are occuring.

Also, unfunded government mandates are where the government gives directives - such as No child left behind - and tells the school districts they must comply but does not provide any funding for implementing the programs.  If the programs are not implemented, the school district runs the risk of LOSING the funding they get for other programs.

Is consolidation the answer?  I don’t know, but I do know that the current system is broken and there are no quick fixes possible.

What is it about the program “No child left behind” that increases costs?
I am not defending the program.  I am trying to understand the costs.

I am beginning to see the term “Unfunded Mandate” as blame shifting verbage
from the school board.

They should directly lay out the costs associated with each of these mandates.

For instance:
In order to comply with section XX, we had to hire an additional teacher to provide
services.  Without section XX we would not have provided that service.

zort2001 - 22 February 2006 09:35 PM

What is it about the program “No child left behind” that increases costs?
I am not defending the program.  I am trying to understand the costs.

I am beginning to see the term “Unfunded Mandate” as blame shifting verbage
from the school board.

I agree!  The No Child Left Behind law (NCLB), which can be found at http://www.ed.gov/nclb/landing.jhtml and http://www.pde.state.pa.us/nclb/site/default.asp sets deadlines for states to expand the scope and frequency of student testing, revamp their accountability systems and guarantee that every teacher is qualified in their subject area.  Further, NCLB requires states to make demonstrable annual progress in raising the percentage of students proficient in reading and math, and in narrowing the test-score gap between advantaged and disadvantaged students.

Isn’t this what we have always expected for our children’s education?

At the same time, NCLB increases funding in several areas, including K-3 reading programs and before-and-after-school programs, and provides states with greater flexibility to use federal funds as they see fit.

I, personally, don’t see anything in the law that I wouldn’t already expect from our public education system, except the directives for Special Ed.  Other than that, the NCLB provisions are what the schools should have been doing all along.

Most of the areas that I see that can substantially increase expenses affect schools who do not meet the Annual Yearly Progress (AYP) standards for 2 consecutive years.  SESD meets the AYP.  You can view its NCLB Report Cards at http://www.sesdweb.net/sesd/site/default.asp

The two areas I think could affect us are Special Ed - NCLB requires all students to progress at a similar rate; and English Language Learners (don’t know how many we have in our district.)

The PA Dept of Ed’s Position Paper on NCLB states that assessments, professional development, data gathering and reporting systems, and direct technical assistance to schools needing improvement are the areas that need funding.

SESD has always done assessments and professional development.  The data gathering and reporting systems should be a one-time investment, and since SESD is meeting the AYP, there’s no need for direct technical assistance to improve.

So, you tell me…..go figure…. 

Here is why NCLB is blamed.... because it was introduced by a Republican and the teacher’s unions do not and will not support that.  If the exact same thing was mandated by a democrat it would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  It’s all about the politics.  At least an attempt was made, they should applaud that, put the political differences aside, and work to make it better for the kids.  There are plenty of other things to politicize.

BevyJean - 23 February 2006 10:31 AM

Here is why NCLB is blamed.... because it was introduced by a Republican and the teacher’s unions do not and will not support that.  If the exact same thing was mandated by a democrat it would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.  It’s all about the politics.  At least an attempt was made, they should applaud that, put the political differences aside, and work to make it better for the kids.  There are plenty of other things to politicize.

is this a fact or your educated opinion or other wise?

I’d say it’s pretty much fact.  The NEA is a consistently liberal (socialist in some opinions) organization.

In recent decades the NEA has greatly increased its visibility in party politics and political issues. The NEA has endorsed every Democratic Party presidential nominee since Jimmy Carter in 1976. It is also estimated that between 1990 and 2002, ninety-five percent of its political contributions went to Democrat candidates.[5] Further, the NEA has donated to a number of advocacy groups outside of party politics including Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, Amnesty International and AIDS Walk Washington.

Recently edited from the page was a claim that NEA has never officially endorsed a Republican. I can’t say whether that’s true or not, but it’s conceivable.

http://en.wiki.org/wiki/National_Education_Association

And, for those that can stomach it, here’s more about NCLB than anyone should have to know:

http://en.wiki.org/wiki/No_Child_Left_Behind

It is definately my opinion, though based on fact.  I didn’t think I needed to add that it was an opinion.  The bottom line is that it is was an attempt to make things better, to make sure that children are on a level playing field when they graduate they are not so far behind other students, and then they have the same oppurtunities to go beyond that.  From an national perspective, you have such a difference in education levels, but it gets criticism only.  And it’s a new excuse to raise your taxes for frivilous spending.  It’s a childish game of who has the stronger will and the most power.  Do you know how much a good public education means to the first lady?  Do you know that she was school teacher and that she helped develop NCLB, and is at the forefront of most of the national education initiatives that they are trying to work on to improve our public schools?  But, considering all that, do you think that any NEA forum would work with her toward that goal?  It’s a game.

Let me back step a minute.  I do not want to sound like I’m bashing teachers.  And, I don’t mean to offend.  I just want to be real about this and what the politicizing has done to public education.  Can you teach in a public school if you are not in the union?  I don’t think you can, but please tell if me if I’m wrong. 

If that is the case, if you want to be a teacher and make a decent wage you have to join a union and pay union dues.  Then they take those dues and throw them into political campaigns, that the teachers may not agree with, WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION.  Why?  Why not put it back into the schools, or why not let the teachers keep it so they can buy supplies, etc?  It just snowballs from there, everybody wants a piece of what’s taught (because you gave them contributions), why is it ok to have the union lean so far left?  Then they go and support groups that want a piece of what our kids are taught (or not taught).  They fight and complain that there should be no references to God or religion (even if it is a history of it, not an indoctrination), but they think it is ok and that they are obligated to teach other things that should never be taught in a school.  You tell me why they don’t want my kid to say “One nation under God”, but can be taught about homosexuality in Kindergarten (not kidding here, they did this in Mass.), or even worse things that I will not mention in sex-ed.  It just continues, from there, on and on, down to how they feel about discipline, even grades (some schools won’t give grades because they think it might make a child feel bad if they get a bad grade), they can’t play tag anymore (because this might hurt little Timmy’s feelings).  Does anyone remember dodge ball?? 

So I make my decisions (BASED ON MY OPINION) and I won’t use public schools, but am forced to pay for them?  And I am forced to pay a lot because they are locked into Collective Bargaining Agreements that never decrease spending (even when it’s needed).  It is an ugly vicious circle and a lot of people want out.  A county run system doesn’t hurt as bad, because it would be cheaper.  You can do what you want with the education, the union won and they can have it, but why should I be expected to like it and fund it when it goes against my values?  They can’t make me pay a snack tax if I don’t eat a snack, or a sales tax if I don’t make a purchase, or a tobacco tax if I don’t smoke?  My child has a right to a free public education, this is not free and I don’t want it, I want my tax money so I can choose where she goes to school.

If you’re going to call it a school tax and you’re make every homeowner pay for it, then be accountable, build functional schools, encourage volunteering (as a matter of fact require it for graduation; instead of community service hours have school service hours), make students work as a punishment instead of sitting there doing nothing in detention, stop paying $300/month for cell phones- no one needs a cell phone.  Do we offer driver’s ed at no cost?  If so, don’t.  I’m sure there is plenty of fat to trim, trim it, instead of a 27% tax increase. And, for God’s sake, get rid of the union!  Because Americans should not be forced by taxation to support political agendas that they do not agree with.

you do not have to be in the union, fact.  there is no difference in pay or benefits whether you are or are not.  wrong again, as part of a union your dues cannot be used for political lobbying.  they will call to request donations for such a thing.  the alleged problem with dodgeball is bullying, the better players single out the weaker ones.  the schools here still play tag, to the best of my knowledge.  you need to get better informed before you rant, taxes are an issue here not the teachers and the union.  every state in the country has a teachers union in which there bargaining unit are a part of.  maybe the NEA is involved because of exactly the problem we have here, more state and federal mandates and less and less funding.

are you bitter over the union because you were never given the oppurtunity to be in one, or was someone spurned by a union or the fact they were not a part of one??

the problem with the NCLB is we do the opposite of what is right.  currently in Balt Co the schools that perform the best get extra bonus funding for doing well on the standardized tests, shouldn’t it be the opposite.  mr bush put NCLB in to law and then proceeded to spend more tax dollars on the military for homeland security and they are over in the middle east.  where did the extra funding go to aid in NCLB, they required the state dept of ed to come up with a federally suitable standardized test and they have to administer the test every other year.  before it was less frequent, who helped pick of the tab for the purchase of those extra tests, you did, cause the feds didn’t.  the idea of NCLB is a good one but the timing was bad for america. 

why does the nea not support a republican, because usaully the rep support a strong military and trim the education budget to accomplish that.  the military is important but so is education.  so lets not blame political affiliation and the union for our problems here the union has been around for decades and the problem is now.  what are the commom factors here?

as for your daughter going to a private school i don’t see a problem with that, i think you should get a voucher for that to help cover the costs of her schooling.  the republican here in pa let that fall apart so he could lead homeland security and where is he now.  do you pay for the buses for your daughter to go to her current school or does her school??

how about the latest birdbrain idea of ole’ rendell to get every high schooler a laptop.  hate to have to replace that when the kids backpack gets stolen.  taxes will go up even more so we can replace those things, they are more than a textbook.  and who really wants to steal a textbook anyway.  hell, you can’t surf the community forums with a textbook.

bikertrash - 23 February 2006 10:27 PM

you do not have to be in the union, fact.  there is no difference in pay or benefits whether you are or are not.  wrong again, as part of a union your dues cannot be used for political lobbying.  they will call to request donations for such a thing.  the alleged problem with dodgeball is bullying, the better players single out the weaker ones.  the schools here still play tag, to the best of my knowledge. 

Every union uses part of their dues for lobbying.  If a union member does not wish to pay the portion that goes to lobbying, they have to submit a letter in writing to the union.  The National Right To Work Legal Defense Foundation was established to provide free legal aid to employees whose human or civil rights have been violated by abuses of compulsory unionism.  You can read about the Unions’ “Massive Political Machine” at http://www.nrtw.org/d/political_spending.htm

I played dodgeball even in high school as part of my PE class.  There was no bullying, but if you didn’t move quick enough, yes, sometimes the ball hurt.  But it was fun and helped to build balance, reflexes, and precision.  I understand there were some serious injuries which caused some schools to eliminate the game or go to foam balls instead of the rubber ones.  But if the problem is bullying, where are the parents of the bullies?  This is a rhetorical question, by the way.

No, my problem with unions is exactly what I’ve stated, I work with unions every day and have for over 5 years.  Another issue I have with unions are pay based on length of service, not preformance and the fact that it is so hard to get rid of underpreforming union employees.  I know the afforementioned things are not going on here, but I believe they eventually might, if you follow what goes on nationally, they can happen anywhere. 

Look at Dover, and now the district is going to pay for a million $$ in legal fees for the parents that sued.

My daughter uses the bus in the morning, and it is paid for by SESD.  I figured I should get something out of the taxes, but there are several other children that are at the same spot and every other stop they make, because we go to a central point for pick up.  It is strange that they should have to pay for bussing.  When I was a child our private school had their own busses and if you used them, you paid.

I think most of the problems would be fixed with vouchers, first the need to build new schools, and that would be a huge load off, right?

if you were awarded vouchers would it be fair to discontinue the SESD’s responsibility to pay for bussing??  i just wonder what the supreme court would decide on that idea.

anyone see this mornings paper, maybe the problem here isn’t the teacher but who runs the school??

South Eastern audit turns up problems

Issues include the schools’ handling of expenses, bus driver background checks.

By MICHELLE STARR
Daily Record/Sunday News

At bottom:  · AUDIT FINDINGS
Feb 24, 2006 — The Pennsylvania auditor general’s office found problems with several actions by South Eastern School District, including a lack of control over its administrative expense reimbursements and improper spending of student activity funds.
South Eastern School Board President Richard Wilson said the district recognizes the problems listed in the audit and is fixing them.

The audit, released Thursday, looked at the school years that ended in 2001 to 2004 and, in some cases, included information beyond June 30, 2004.

The audit cited problems with teacher certification and bus driver background checks, among other things.

“South Eastern School District administrators and school board members must take immediate action to tighten oversight controls and make sure that taxpayer dollars are being spent efficiently and according to proper procedures,” Auditor General Jack Wagner said in a statement.

Wilson said the district just hasn’t been doing things the way it should. Money in the student activity fund should not go for curriculum needs. Those lines were being blurred, and Wilson said he was there during the last audit when the same problem was mentioned.

“It’s very embarrassing,” Wilson said of a second violation. “It just never got taken care of. It never got fixed. It wasn’t that it was money being squandered. A lot of the money that went in and went out were in the wrong categories.”

District Supt. Tom McShane could not be reached for comment.

The audit also said the superintendent and assistant superintendent approved their own expenses and reimbursements.

One issue that arose concerned a trip an administrator, who Wilson said was Asst. Supt. Tracy Shank, took to St. Peter’s College in Oxford, England, for a conference.

Shank could not be reached for comment.

An invoice showed a round-trip train ticket from London to Oxford cost $56 per person, but $112 was submitted by the administrator and reimbursed by the district.

Another invoice showed the hotel cost would be $760 per person for the conference, but $1,520 was reimbursed instead. The administrator told the auditors that upon arrival, no single rooms were available, so a double rate was charged.

“No documentation was provided to support or refute this assertion,” the audit states.

The total amount reimbursed for the trip was $2,444, according to the audit.

The state also questioned exchange rate calculations, lack of receipts and possible duplicate reimbursements.

Sandra Haulsee, president of the South Eastern Tax Reform Coalition, questioned the purpose of the trip.

“There was no reason to go,” she said. “Did they actually go to (England) for that, or was that a paid vacation?”

Haulsee leads a group of residents who opposed last year’s 27 percent property-tax increase and is concerned about district spending.

Wilson said he didn’t question Shank’s trip.

“I’m not really sure what the trip was for,” Wilson said. “It was an educational trip. It was something to do with Oxford. Maybe I should know and don’t.”

Wilson said a person from Shippensburg also went to the event, so it was possible that they each paid for certain things, but he didn’t get clarification, he said.

“Dr. Shank has spent so much of her own money in buying stuff for the school district that she won’t be reimbursed for, that she doesn’t ask to be reimbursed for,” Wilson said.

He said he realizes that the district needs to tighten its practices. A human relations worker was hired and will make sure employees have the proper certifications; a new business manager is creating new accounts and moving money into appropriate areas; and the district is creating policies so administrators don’t approve their own expenses, and it is tightening spending on extras such as conferences, he said.

“I believe we have most of it fixed completely and what’s not ... fixed completely is being fixed,” Wilson said.

Reach Michelle Starr at 771-2045 or .

AUDIT FINDINGS

In an audit of South Eastern School District, the state auditor general’s office reported finding:

· Certification irregularities for employees, including two teachers working with expired teaching certificates for several months.

· Two former board members failed to file statements of financial interests in 2003, and one former board member failed to file for 2001, 2003 and 2004. They have since filed. The auditor’s office sent a copy to the State Ethics Commission for review and possible investigation. The commission could not be reached for comment.

· Bus drivers’ criminal background checks and child-abuse clearances were not given in a timely manner.

· Problems in policies regarding bus drivers’ qualifications. The audit reviewed nearly half of the drivers used by the district. Two of them had been convicted of serious crimes - robbery and false reports to law enforcement. “These convictions, although prior to the five year look back period,” the audit noted, “call into question the applicants’ suitability to have direct contact with children.”

· For the second consecutive audit, the district violated operations of accounts in the activity fund; expenses that should have been in the general fund were made without board approval; payments to district employees were made without withholding taxes; interest income was not prorated to student accounts; athletics-related items were paid through the student activity fund;