Southern York County Life

I am curious to see how the online community of Stewartstown feels about the war in Iraq. I am surprised that it has not become a topic here yet. So here it goes.

Please remember that one of the greatest things about this nation is that we are one of the few countries in the free world where one can stand on any street corner and yell to the top of our lungs “Go USA” or “Our president sucks” and not worry about the repercussions to ourselves or famalies. With that said, please respect the opinions that we are all entitled to and not discount anyone’s response to this post. We are all entitled to free speech.

I guess you could say I am biased. As a member of a Polish immgrant family after WWI, British born and an American citizen, I support the war. You could also say I am biased because every generation of my family has served the USA in the military since WWI. From WWII to Korea, Vietnam, the First Gulf War and now, at least one family member has or will be there. And now, I have 4 childhood friends, all Marines (and lifers) 2 of which are there now, 2 of which are awaiting orders. I have 3 coworkers, one of which just got his marching orders, and 2 on standby, and one family member on standby. I support them and their cause without question.

Since the war started, I often wondered how the world may have been different if Saddam was not in power over the last 12 years, and more importantly since September 11. I have no idea if a difference would have been made if Saddam was not there, if 9-11 would not have happened if he was not there or any of the other events like US embassy bombings and attacks on US naval ships. There is no real compelling evidence one way or another, at least from what the media and the government tells us. But now it may matter.

Although I am pro military, pro war and pro USA, everything has its time and place. Perhaps war could have waited some more. I wonder if more sanctions or time for the UN would have worked, but that is a moot point now as well. We have what we have. Its time to stand behind our men and woman soliders and appreciate the sacrifices they are making for us today. You can easily express your pleasure or displeasure with your vote next election day. Just dont let our people down now.

It does not matter that my life has been ‘inconveinanced’ by increased security checks at work, nor the ‘new’ traffic pattern enforced by the city during my morning commute that causes me delays because they are protecting buildings of importance. What does matter is that this effort by this government of ours to make the world a better place turns out well for all. For our freedoms, and my hope that those citizens of Iraq that get a chance to taste just a fraction of the freedoms that we take for granite every day, may this war end soon.

Thanks for enduring my soapbox, of sorts. Whats on your mind?

Joe

I voted for Bush. I believe Saddam Hussein is evil.  I support our troops 100%.  All that does not alleviate the fear I have that this could be a huge mistake and a step backward for us. 

The protestors disgust me.  Protesting a war before it starts makes more sense than while it’s going.  To protest during the war only serves to hurt our troops in my opinion and show a confused America.

There is right to free speech in this country, sadly, most of the protestors never picked up a pen or drafted an e-mail to their states representatives prior to the war, they are only interested in their 5 min of fame now.

Nuff said, let’s get it over with quickly and get those men and women back home to their loved ones.

CD

When you meet true evil, you must standup and be counted!

We have had 12 years of seeking alternatives to a war.  The 12 years have been just a continuing delaying tactic by the Bagdad Dictatorship.  Many believe that if you draw it out long enough, people will move on to other issues (no strength of conviction)!

Whether you voted for the President, You must agree that President Bush has strength of conviction (This may cause him to lose in the next election).

We must remember.  The dictatorship could at any time during the past 12 years, complied completely with the UN and avoided all of this.

The Iraq Dictatorship has deployed Chemical weapons before (Kurds, Iranians, Muslims).  They have systematicaly Raped, Killed, Torture the Iraqi people.

Iraqi has supported financially, and technically International Terrorism.  The nexus of support can be found in Bagdad.

I work on a regualr basis with the individuals in our miltary.  They deserve our respect and support.  They are making the ultimate sacrifice to Standup to Evil!

This really sums up my position:
In February Secretary of State Colin Powell appeared on MTV to discuss the US position with regard to our becoming an imperial power. A viewer in Norway asked why Europeans consider the US to be the “Satan of contemporary politics.”

Here’s a portion of what the Secretary said:
“Far from being the Great Satan, I would say that we are the Great Protector. We have sent men and women from the armed forces of the United States to other parts of the world throughout the past century to put down oppression. We defeated Fascism. We defeated Communism. We saved Europe in World War I and World War II.
And when all those conflicts were over, what did we do? Did we stay and conquer? Did we say, Okay, we defeated Germany. Now Germany belongs to us? We defeated Japan, so Japan belongs to us? No. What did we do? We built them up. We gave them democratic systems which they have embraced totally to their soul.

And did we ask for any land? No, the only land we ever asked for was enough land to bury our dead. “

And that is the kind of nation we are.

Craig Brown

An Imperial Power? Thats interesting. Was that the topic of the diccussion or was that how the person from Norway phrased it? If thats how they phrased it, it is damned near ironic. During those ‘days’ of imperalism and colonizationalism, it was Europe that was keen to enforce its policies upon the world, not the Americas...funny I guess, perhaps the Americans are not the only ones that are not brushed up on their history.

may God bless America

jmkas-- you are sadly misinformed about America being one of the few countries where people can stand on any street corner and yell at the top of their lungs whatever they feel like. While plans were being made behind closed doors to prepare for a war with Iraq, the Patriot Act was passed. The Patriot Act takes away many of Americans rights with respect to privacy, etc. While Americans are preoccupied watching the war and reading about the war, several of their constitutional rights are being taken away. The very rights granted by our founding fathers that veterans risked their lifes and limbs to preserve.

Please keep in mind that the president has the right to enact martial law at any time which suspends Americans rights granted by the Constitution. Little remains as far as Americans rights granted by the Constitution because Americans have been asleep at the wheel for too many years.

The Oregon state legislature is ready to pass a state law that would sentence war protestors to 20 to 25 years in prison.

As Zort said in their post, Saddam had 12 years to comply with Resolution 1441. Giving Saddam and weapons inspectors extra time as requested by a couple of countries as well as yourself would have accomplished nothing.  Just another delay tactic in postponing the inevitable.

I don’t think most protestors have any idea why they are protesting other than the fact there is a war. If the protestors took the time to read Black Hawk Down or see the movie which is out on video now, I think the protestors would be reduced to at least half their number.

It doesn’t matter whether people oppose or support the war, the most important thing everyone should be supporting is our military. Members of our military most likely do not want to be engaged in combat no more than the protestors want the U.S.A. to be engaged in war. Members of our military are there because they know it is part of their duties and they are proud to defend our nation.

It is a shame that our media is being selective as to what the public is permitted to read or watch with respect to the war. There are always two sides to every story.

Two alternative web sites that I have found so far that have provided coverage from both sides of the war is http://www.drudgereport.com and http://www.arabnews.com

May God Bless our military and keep them safe from harm and return them home to their families as soon as possible.

JJH—Maybe you are on to something, but I do not know what compells you to make such a
statement about the lack of free speech in this country or that I am ‘sadly misinformed’ with regards to my belief that it exists. At the least, we are the freest speking people on the planet. And at the most, the First Amendment to the Constitution guarantees the citizens of this country that right. Perhaps an injustice has been done to you that makes you take that position. You do touch on an interesting point though that will make a later statement relevant though.

I can tell you that plans to fight another war with Iraq were under way the day after the first Persian Gulf war ended. And here is a shocker. The United States has plans to fight just about every other country on this earth as well. Thats what generals do when they are not actively participating in a war. Would you expect anything less? Thats their jobs - Make war plans. Maybe the plans to fight Russia are gathering some dust now, but you can bet your last dollar that the ones drawn up versus Syria, North Korea and Iran are getting another look at. The Presidents statement about the “Axis of Evil” was not just a cheesy coined phrase. It means something. Its not that the US is a war mongering nation, just trying to be prepared. You have no doubt already heard several US officials firing a warning shot at Syria. Rumsfeld: “We consider such trafficking as hostile acts and will hold the Syrian government accountable for such shipments,” Rumsfeld said. “My guess is that they’ll be more careful.” Today Syria closed its border with Iraq. I wonder what went on behind the scenes with that one. Countries just dont fold over a statement made by a foreign official. Someone sat on someone, and a deal was made, or better yet, forced.

The Patriot Act or lesser known as HR 3162. Read the entire text of it when you get a chance.
You mention that it takes away the very rights that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights
provide all of us. Depending on how to interpret it, you are right. The spirit of the Patriot Act was born on September 11th and is relevant to todays America and the world. People want to know what our government is doing to prevent another 9-11...well the Patriot Act is part of it. You will have to sacrifice some of your freedoms in order for it to work. I would not call it a sacrifice though if you are innocent and have nothing to hide. These same freedoms protected by the Consitution and the Bill of Rights were the ones exploited by the terrorists to make 9-11 happen. Sadly, there is no way around these rights besides taking them away or making them conditional, which is exactly what the Patriot Act does. The alternative is another domestic disaster. I would wager that if the the Patriot Act was in place before 1995, the Oklahoma City Bombing would not have happened (The 8 year anniversary is April 19). The Government knew about McVeigh, but he was protected by the Constituion and Bill of Rights. What they knew would not stand up in a court of law if he was arrested before 4-19-95. What would you have done if you were a lawmaker? Violate this mans rights? No, you make the Patriot Act that allows for these ‘suspension of rights’ when the time is appropriate. (A side note, McVeigh was more deadly than the enitre Iraqi military to date. He killed 168 people.)

UN Resolution 1441 was passed in November 2002. There was a series of UN resolutions that were passed in 1990/1 (660, 661, 662, 664, 665, 666, 667, 669, 670, 674, 677 and 678 as well as a few in the 680s and 690s) that called for the disarmament of Iraq and instituted several other conditions / programs for Iraq including the “No-fly zones” and the “Oil for food program”. I only wondered out loud if more time for resolutions to work would have been appropriate because the finality of the war hit home, and the fact that some of my family members and friends might die became a realtiy. No one wants to see their loved ones die, and that was my realization. Dont think for one minute though that I dont support the war or the military, My friends and family in the military know that the core purpose (sorry for being blunt) of being a soldier is to kill. Its not a job program or rehab center. I know that too...again, it was just the realization that my loved ones could die because of this war.

I dont know about the Oregon State legislature plan regarding war protestors and lengthy jail
time. It sounds extreme, but there must be more to it. Do you have any more information on it?

Yes, the President can enact martial law when he/she sees fit. I am aware. I am not too concerned though. Martial law was declared in LA after the Rodney King trial, and the people rioted. Do you know the penality for rioting under martial law? Death on the spot. The National Guard and Police had the right to shoot to kill any rioter they saw, but they did not...I think the violence from the Vietnam era with regards to rioters and authorities (who did kill rioters) is too fresh to go through again.

I think protesting is fine. I do agree with your protesting statement about the general
ignorance of the protestors though...and that is a general statement. I am sure there are
those “in the know” but by en large, they are just “anti war” and thats all they know. I think
the same holds true though for the ‘pro war’ folks too. I dont think a book or video about Somalia would have changed their minds though. Anyhow, it was a good story and representation of the facts - American style.

The Media! Proof enough that free speech lives (grin). I often think they are more harmful
than good. There are some definate hidden agendas in the media, and each outlet is slanted and biased one way or another with specific affiliations to political party, gender, race or
religion. When I want the read dirt on a foreign affair, I look to a foreign media source. They are too biased, but not to the Americas.

Thanks for the weblinks, I will definately check them out and see what they have to say.

Yes, may the troops come home safe.

The relevant statement that I referred to several times above. Here it is, and dont shoot me.
Its just food for thought. The Constitution was created for a time that was relevant over 200
years ago. Our founding fathers had no idea the world would be the way it is today. They made
no provisions for it. The Bill of Rights Amendments attempts to make the Constitution (and the original Bill) relevant for todays world. The Womens right to vote in 1920, the repeal of
Prohibition in 1933, Presidential term limits in 1951, etc - Maybe its time to revisit that document and rewrite it based on todays world. I would bet the Patriot Act would become part
of the foundation!

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I do appreciate it.
Joe

May God bless the entire world.